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Previous by Date: Subject: Re: [DCHAS-L] neutralizing ammonium sulfide Date: Sunday, August 2, 2020 at 1:10:29 PM Author: davivid <davivid**At_Symbol_Here**WELL.COM> |
Next by Date: Subject: Re: [DCHAS-L] neutralizing ammonium sulfide Date: Sun, 2 Aug 2020 21:25:51 +0000 Author: JOHN L STRAUGHN |
I especially liked Edward Sage's suggestion of converting the aqueous ammonium sulfide to aqueous ammonium sulfate and solid iron sulfide by the addition (a slight excess, of course) of aqueous ferrous sulfate (or perhaps ferrous ammonium sulfate). It reduces the volume of the reaction mix (not waste (yet)) that requires special handling and perhaps, although not necessarily, facilitates a subsequent step of oxidation of sulfide to sulfate without the earlier concern of ammonium involvement.
Depending upon how much aqueous ammonium sulfate I had I would use it as a fertilizer for the plants in my laboratories. Then I wouldn't have to waste good reagent ammonium sulfate in making my own brand of plant fertilizer. :)
Seriously, is not the reduction of the waste stream to more benign substances _sufficient as a defensible reason_ for continuing the chemistry? Why is an economic argument (that does not get crosswise with toxicity issues, for example) not valid?
On what planet is the conversion of one undesirable substance into another that is less undesirable in order to, say, "reduce pollution" hard to defend? What do the waste processors do? Oh, I see that they has a license to do that chemistry.
The cynic in me says that the lawyers have achieved some sort of supremacy over the chemists. Of course, there are always "bad" players on every side. And these players must be defended against. I readily appreciate this issue.
I find Monona's example is a great one where smart and good chemistry results in a good and perhaps economic outcome.
Please forgive me my eccentricities. I'm fairly new to this particular chemical discipline and I'm still steep on the learning curve.
jadv
On Sun, 02 Aug 2020 10:57 AM, Monona Rossol wrote: -- ---
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> Yup, that's the rule.å If you can defend the conversion for purpose, it's OK.å For example, in art, the ceramic glaze waste always contains highly regulated stuff.å But if the teachers will concentrate it and fire it as an experimental process for students to see what color and properties it has and maybe use it for unseen surfaces like the insides of bottles with small necks or making little mosaic tesserae, hey, it's not waste.å And once fired and into solid chunks, it is not waste by any standard.å Never mind that you might find all the fired solid tesserae ugly and then throw them out. That's just an experiment that went bad. Mission accomplished.å And there have been occasions on which a waste glaze really does look great.
>
> But to just convert the ammonium sulfide you don't want into something that you can throw away without cost would seem to me to be hard to defend.å Just the fact that you do not personally declare it as waste when you actually have no use for it doesn't work as far as I know.
>
> My advice is to find a defensible secondary reason for that conversion if this is a waste that is created on more than a single occasion.å
>
> Monona
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Joseph DiVerdi
> To: DCHAS-L**At_Symbol_Here**Princeton.EDU
> Sent: Sun, Aug 2, 2020 12:07 pm
> Subject: Re: [DCHAS-L] neutralizing ammonium sulfide
>
> I would argue this is not ‰??waste treatment‰?? unless I, the chemist responsible for the process, defined the ammonium sulfide as ‰??waste.‰??
>
> jadv
> --
> Joseph A. DiVerdi, Ph.D., M.B.A.
> Associate Professor of Chemistry
> Colorado State University, Fort Collins, CO, USA
> +1.970.980.5868 - http:// <http://sites.chem.colostate.edu/diverdi>diverdi.colostate.edu/
>
>> On Aug 2, 2020, at 5:13 AM, Monona Rossol <0000030664c37427-dmarc-request**At_Symbol_Here**lists.princeton.edu> wrote:
>>
>> •ÈÀI think this is called waste treatment and not allowed without a license. å Mononaå
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: JOHN L STRAUGHN <0000120dde6ec15c-dmarc-request**At_Symbol_Here**LISTS.PRINCETON.EDU>
>> To: DCHAS-L
>> Sent: Sun, Aug 2, 2020 05:34 AM
>> Subject: Re: [DCHAS-L] neutralizing ammonium sulfide
>>
>>
>> I'd try this: small scale, look for sulfur precipitation (may clear with further addition of peroxide), nitrogen gas bubbling and further NOx generation (red-brown fumes, ie. in a hood) possible. Get a recipie that works and share it in glory!
>> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------!
----
>> *From:* ACS Division of Chemical Health and Safety
>> *Sent:* Friday, July 31, 2020 12:06 PM
>> *To:* DCHAS-L**At_Symbol_Here**Princeton.EDU
>> *Subject:* Re: [DCHAS-L] neutralizing ammonium sulfide
>> å
>> Youmight look into adding hydrogen peroxide, perborate or some persulfate derivative.
>>
>> Dan
>>
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Nickie Norton
>> To: DCHAS-L**At_Symbol_Here**Princeton.EDU
>> Sent: Fri, Jul 31, 2020 10:35 am
>> Subject: [DCHAS-L] neutralizing ammonium sulfide
>>
>> Hi All,
>> å
>> We are using ammonium sulfide in excess in a reaction in water.å What is the proper way to dispose of the aqueous ammonium sulfide?å We are concerned that if we add bleach we will make chloramine.å Does anyone have a way to convert the ammonium sulfide to ammonium sulfate?
>> å
>> Thank you,
>> å
>> Nickie Norton
>> Research Chemist
>> The Shepherd Chemical Company
>> 4900 Beech Street
>> Norwood, OHå 45212
>> nnorton**At_Symbol_Here**shepchem.com
>> 513-842-9332
>> å
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Joseph A. DiVerdi, PhD, MBA
Associate Professor of Chemistry
Colorado State University, Fort Collins, CO, USA
+1.970.980.5868 - http://diverdi.colostate.edu/
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