From: DCHAS-L Discussion List [mailto:dchas-l**At_Symbol_Here**MED.CORNELL.EDU] On Behalf Of Kenneth Smith
Sent: Wednesday, August 20, 2014 12:47 PM
To: DCHAS-L**At_Symbol_Here**MED.CORNELL.EDU
Subject: [DCHAS-L] FW: [DCHAS-L] piranha solution

From: Weizman, Haim [mailto:hweizman**At_Symbol_Here**ucsd.edu]
Sent: Wednesday, August 20, 2014 8:55 AM
To: Kenneth Smith
Subject: Re: [DCHAS-L] piranha solution

Hi Wayne –

 

I came across this question previously. I too initially thought add A->W just like I was taught undergraduate chemistry. But turns out that this is not necessarily the preferred method in forming piranha solution.

 

If you take a t look at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aA8mC5RIj5k&list=UUMrurXFYJyXaXVRWXK4xAOg Time mark 6:17 or so you can see the instruction is to add peroxide to acid.

 

From what I recall from Dr. Haim Weizman this quick scene in the video generated a lot of questions. Reviewers of the video commented and questioned this as it seemed counter intuitive to them as well. If I recall there were some technical reasons, degree of reactivity, heat capacity of acid vs peroxide solution to do it in this sequence. The exact reason I cannot recall. I did remember that the degree of preference was only slightly better in this direction over the other and the take home message was hazard of heat generation was rapid and high so the reaction should always be done very carefully with good thermal cooling controls.

 

I’ve cc’ed Dr.. Weizman as he might be able to contribute more.

Ken

 

 

Ken Smith, CHP CIH RRPT

University of California

Interim Director of EH&S
Laboratory Safety Manager
ken..smith**At_Symbol_Here**ucop.edu
voice (510) 882-3499

 

From: DCHAS-L Discussion List [mailto:dchas-l**At_Symbol_Here**MED.CORNELL.EDU] On Behalf Of James Saccardo
Sent: Tuesday, August 19, 2014 7:22 PM
To: DCHAS-L**At_Symbol_Here**MED.CORNELL.EDU
Subject: Re: [DCHAS-L] piranha solution

 

Wayne, I say pour conc. acid into the peroxide allowing the acid to dissolve into the peroxide, thus allowing the ionizing acid to dilute into the entire volume of peroxide on contact. Pouring peroxide into the conc.acid would cause the peroxide to "spit" off the surface of the acid, as there will be pockets of conc. acid ionizing with smaller volumes of peroxide, without any medium to absorb the heat of solution.

 

Acid into water is what I was always taught for the reasoning above.

Jim

Sent from 4G LTE Smartphone

 

----- Reply message -----
From: "Wayne Phan" <Wayne.Phan**At_Symbol_Here**POMONA.EDU>
To: "DCHAS-L**At_Symbol_Here**MED.CORNELL.EDU" <DCHAS-L**At_Symbol_Here**MED.CORNELL.EDU>
Subject: [DCHAS-L] piranha solution
Date: Tue, Aug 19, 2014 7:09 PM

 

When preparing piranha solution, do we add acid to the peroxide or the peroxide to the acid.  I see different opinions on this.  What is the standard practice?

 

Thanks,

 

Wayne

 

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