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Subject: [DCHAS-L] College Building Closed
Date: Monday, January 31, 2022 at 7:18:47 AM
Author: Doug Cody <dsc1950**At_Symbol_Here**GMAIL.COM> 		Next by Date:
Subject: Re: [DCHAS-L] New article for ACS Chemical Health & Safety is available online.
Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2022 08:26:32 -0500
Author: Ralph Stuart

From: Jessica Martin <jessica.a.martin**At_Symbol_Here**UCONN.EDU>
Subject: Re: [DCHAS-L] New article for ACS Chemical Health & Safety is available online.
Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2022 07:41:03 -0500
Reply-To: ACS Division of Chemical Health and Safety <DCHAS-L**At_Symbol_Here**Princeton.EDU>
Message-ID: 043B220D-B89E-4DDC-91A0-1318FF316353**At_Symbol_Here**uconn.edu
In-Reply-To <003101d81699$8cdf2030$a69d6090$**At_Symbol_Here**verizon.net>


To add to Richard's point, something that some colleagues and I have been struggling with is the idea of who is really in a position to judge. The most common frontline workers in academic labs are graduate students, post-docs, and undergraduate students. The academic lab in which they work is likely their first exposure (or even if they have had exposure to multiple labs, they have all been academic) to how a "real" lab operates. If everyone around you normalizes what you are seeing going on then you accept this as normal. As a result, you may *feel* perfectly safe in your lab - until something happens. And even if you suspect that things aren't as they should be, you are often in the position to feel like you are "ratting" someone out (your PI, fellow grad students, etc) if you do start asking questions about ways to do things better. This, of course, is inherent to the concept of "safety culture" - it is the behavior and attitudes that everyone around you normalizes. 


I believe this is also why students are often stunned by what they see in a well-run industrial lab: everyone actually wearing their PPE, clean hoods, well-organized chemicals & glassware. I can tell you from personal experience that I got MUCH more done per hour worked in 3 months in an organized industry lab than I did in my academic lab - just because I could FIND things and when I did find them they were in usable condition. 

Best,
Jessica A. Martin, Ph.D.
NSF Graduate Research Fellow (2018-2021)
Joint Safety Team, Founding Member (2018-2021)
Pinkhassik Group, Department of Chemistry (2016-2021)
University of Connecticut
323-327-3974

"Anger is temporary - and often useful.
But the project is forever!
Seriously - this thing is never going to end is it?"
-I said this

On Jan 31, 2022, at 6:56 AM, Richard Palluzi <000006c59248530b-dmarc-request**At_Symbol_Here**LISTS.PRINCETON.EDU> wrote:


*Message sent from a system outside of UConn.*


My problem with articles that draw conclusions from surveys is that the data in is often, at least in my opinion, inaccurate or just plain wrong.
 
I routinely see safety audits that reveal gapping holes in safety programs even though the organization ranks their performance in these areas as good to excellent. My personal experience with academic research laboratories is that while safety awareness is getting better it certainly is far from as good as that found in most industrial research laboratories. And many of them still routinely over estimate the effectiveness of their programs.
 
Years ago I worked for an organization that annually surveyed all its members on management's commitment to safety. Within a few years the results were almost uniformly excellent. Why? Because every time a group expressed anything less the manager assured them they were wrong and encouraged them to rethink their answer next year. Everyone rapidly got the message. In another organization my comments on their awful MOC process was challenged by an internal survey that ranked it highly. My reply was to note that several individuals had volunteered that they loved the new system because it did not ask them to do much work to get an approval like the old system.
 
So a good article but you will pardon my skepticism about treating surveys like real data.
 
Richard Palluzi 
PE, CSP,FAIChE
 
Pilot plant and laboratory consulting, safety, design, reviews, and training
 
Richard P Palluzi LLC
72 Summit Drive
Basking Ridge, NJ 07920
908-285-3782
 
From: ACS Division of Chemical Health and Safety <DCHAS-L**At_Symbol_Here**Princeton.EDU> On Behalf Of Ralph Stuart
Sent: Monday, January 31, 2022 6:38 AM
To: DCHAS-L**At_Symbol_Here**Princeton.EDU
Subject: [DCHAS-L] New article for ACS Chemical Health & Safety is available online.
 

 

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