From: "Wright, Mike" <mwright**At_Symbol_Here**USW.ORG>
Subject: Re: [DCHAS-L] EXTERNAL EMAIL: Re: [DCHAS-L] Pentadecafluorooctanoyl chloride.
Date: Wed, 26 May 2021 16:18:29 +0000
Reply-To: ACS Division of Chemical Health and Safety <DCHAS-L**At_Symbol_Here**Princeton.EDU>
Message-ID: 98e7b74d97704275855000c8339cceb6**At_Symbol_Here**usw.org
In-Reply-To <000001d7519c$8eb93750$ac2ba5f0$**At_Symbol_Here**rochester.rr.com>


The GHS was a terrific step forward in three ways – comprehensibility, globalization (in that it provided a ready-made system for countries that could not develop their own), and trade. But it has a serious flaw compared to the original OSHA Hazcom standard. (Full disclosure – I was a member of the coordinating committee that designed the SDS and labeling systems.) For some endpoints, the GHS takes a “weight of the evidence” approach, whereas the old OSHA standard mandated that a single positive well-conducted study was enough to establish carcinogenicity, mutagenicity, etc.  Weight of the evidence determinations can vary widely, and sometimes for reasons unrelated to the scientific evidence.  We’ve seen wildly different SDSs for the same chemical. Sometimes the same manufacturer will classify the same chemical differently in different jurisdictions. Clearly, this is not a science-based decision.

 

This is less a problem in the USA than in some other countries, because the easiest way for a manufacturer to lose a big product liability case is to withhold information from users. Thank God for our contingent-fee tort system. But we’ve still seen plenty of discrepancies.

 

I’ll leave to the lawyers whether OSHA could go back to the “one positive study” approach without running afoul of trade law. But even if they can’t, they could make it harder for a classifier to ignore positive studies. One way would be to require a transparent, publically available analysis, disclosing the evidence relied on and the evidence rejected, for any “weight of the evidence”  determination. Some of us discussed that possibility with OSHA during the Obama Administration, and some preliminary efforts were underway, but of course they ended in 2017.

 

Fortunately, OSHA’s current Hazcom rulemaking provides a splendid opportunity to push this issue again. The initial comment period ended last week, but hearings are scheduled for September, so there will be plenty of chances for written and oral testimony and post-hearing comments.  I know OSHA would welcome participation by members of the DCHAS.

 

Mike Wright

412-370-0105 cell

 

“My friends, love is better than anger. Hope is better than fear. Optimism is better than despair. So let us be loving, hopeful and optimistic. And we’ll change the world.”

                                                                                                                                                                                         Jack Layton

 

 

 

 

From: ACS Division of Chemical Health and Safety [mailto:DCHAS-L**At_Symbol_Here**Princeton.EDU] On Behalf Of pzavon**At_Symbol_Here**ROCHESTER.RR.COM
Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2021 3:31 PM
To: DCHAS-L**At_Symbol_Here**Princeton.EDU
Subject: EXTERNAL EMAIL: Re: [DCHAS-L] Pentadecafluorooctanoyl chloride.

 

> Requiring references is the norm in published scientific literature, why not this standard of quality and traceability in SDSs as a key source of information?

 

I think I can suggest the reason for this. The SDS did not begin existence as scientific literature, but as industrial safety information provided by the manufacturer for the _industrial_ user, and that in a much less formal era of the 1960s.  There have been significant modifications since then but dragging it into the realm of scientific literature is clearly a herculean task still in progress and unlikely to be completed in the near future.  That doesn’t mean you should not continue to seek that level, but there is little point in being incensed about the SDS not being at that level now or soon.

Peter Zavon, CIH
Penfield, NY

PZAVON**At_Symbol_Here**Rochester.rr.com

 

 

From: ACS Division of Chemical Health and Safety <DCHAS-L**At_Symbol_Here**Princeton.EDU> On Behalf Of Leah Rae McEwen
Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2021 12:22 PM
To: DCHAS-L**At_Symbol_Here**Princeton.EDU
Subject: Re: [DCHAS-L] Pentadecafluorooctanoyl chloride.

 

Dear Colleagues, 

 

I concur with the need for more clarity around sources of data reported in SDSs from manufacturers and chemical suppliers. Requiring references is the norm in published scientific literature, why not this standard of quality and traceability in SDSs as a key source of information?

 

Just a note about the Safety & Hazard information in PubChem - this is sourced from many different agencies and other entities. These sources are documented under each entry with a link back to the original source. 

 

The corrosive GHS symbol included for Pentadecafluorotoctanoyl chloride is from ECHA, for example. Specifically the source is the ECHA C&L inventory database, which compiles classification and labelling notifications from a number of companies as reported to ECHA per the CLP criteria (EU regulation).  

 

https://pubchem.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/compound/Perfluorooctanoyl-chloride#section=GHS-Classification

https://echa.europa.eu/information-on-chemicals/cl-inventory-database/-/discli/details/62650

 

PubChem is a service from the National Library of Medicine that provides information from other authoritative sources as reported. The motivation is to provide a starting point and where to link to find further information. It is incumbent upon the user to determine what information and source is relevant for their needs. PubChem is not an official classification entity for GHS or any other status of chemical substances. 

 

I hope this may help generally. As a volunteer curator with PubChem, I am happy to have ideas for additional data and information sources. 

 

Best wishes, 

Leah 

 

 

Leah R. McEwen
Chemistry Librarian, Cornell University
293 Clark Hall, Ithaca, NY 14853
lrm1**At_Symbol_Here**cornell.edu
+1 607.793.6217


From: ACS Division of Chemical Health and Safety <DCHAS-L**At_Symbol_Here**Princeton.EDU> on behalf of Stuart, Ralph <Ralph.Stuart**At_Symbol_Here**KEENE.EDU>
Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2021 11:54
To: DCHAS-L**At_Symbol_Here**Princeton.EDU <DCHAS-L**At_Symbol_Here**Princeton.EDU>
Subject: Re: [DCHAS-L] Pentadecafluorooctanoyl chloride.

 

> >Could we have a webinar or discussion about the differences in SDS? I have faced those many times and depending on the manufacturer there are really big differences.

That would be a great topic to take up in a CHAS chat. We did begin this discussion in the March CHAS chat this year on Quality Data For Safer Experiments.q You can see the notes from this session at
http://dchas.org/2021/03/11/quality-data-for-safer-experiments/

However, a more focused discussion on assessing the fit of a SDS to answering a lab safety question would be a good topic for a group discussion. Do we have any volunteers to lead this discussion?

Thanks for this suggestion!

- Ralph

Ralph Stuart, CIH, CCHO
Environmental Safety Manager
Keene State College
603 358-2859

ralph.stuart**At_Symbol_Here**keene.edu

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