All
This discussion is why you MUST (IMHO) carry E&O liability insurance. The ACS policies through the Hayes Group are worth the cost. If you render an opinion to anyone other than your direct employer, you should have E&O.
NL
Reply from:
NEAL LANGERMAN
(619) 990-4908
From: ACS Division of Chemical Health and Safety <DCHAS-L**At_Symbol_Here**PRINCETON.EDU> On Behalf Of Monona Rossol
Sent: Sunday, November 10, 2019 9:03 AM
To: DCHAS-L**At_Symbol_Here**PRINCETON.EDU
Subject: Re: [DCHAS-L] liability and an impossible CHP
Rob, The final decisions are not up to me. I write the report on what should be. I always write a pretty good report. But in this case, as I write, I am already aware they will not be doing hardly anything I say. That leaves the architect with a report (which also goes to the school) full of recommendations that the administrators and teachers will see as impractical, unnecessary, and impossible.
Now we have the final building full of hazards and flaws. If there are problems, I have to have written a report that makes it clear that this was not what I recommended. I have done expert witness in cases against architects and their consultants. Everyone gets swept up in it. If you even walked by the building during construction someone might come to see you.
And you are so right about the job. I don't need this. Monona
-----Original Message-----
From: ILPI Support <info**At_Symbol_Here**ILPI.COM>
To: DCHAS-L <DCHAS-L**At_Symbol_Here**PRINCETON.EDU>
Sent: Sun, Nov 10, 2019 5:38 am
Subject: Re: [DCHAS-L] liability and an impossible CHP
We did a CHP review for a major university once and they wanted to let bare feet and shorts in the lab slide because some of the older professor dudes liked to roll that way.
We simply refused to incorporate that into the finished product. If they wanted to make changes from what we gave them, that's their nest that they can sit in. I made clear to them we would retain the original copy and that it would be discoverable legal evidence in the event of a lawsuit.
So just Monona them (I like that phrase!) and let them deal with it if they don't like it. As you're doing a presentation, simply come up with the same catchphrase/disclaimer "Best practices (OSHA/EPA regs whatever) dictate ABC; observed behavior XYZ does not comply."
You can't make them change. They may not hire you again, but I doubt you'd want them to if they weren't going to take your advice.
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From: Monona Rossol <actsnyc**At_Symbol_Here**cs.com>
Re: liability and an impossible CHP
Oh shoot. I have a problem again. Maybe some advice from you guys would help.
I have an art building planning job in one of those states in which OSHA does not cover the state schools. I went on the university's website and read all their EH&S stuff - which you can do in 40 minutes, since there is so little. They only have a Chemical Hygiene Plan and nothing at all for the art department.
The school has turned over safety to the individual professors in the mistaken belief that this takes the administration off the hook. That's what UCLA thought also until their Board of Regents was indicted for criminally negligent homicide.
That CHP is written so badly, it would be impossible even for trained chemists to comply, so my bet is nobody does anything. For example, the professors have the job of obtaining the SDSs and putting them in the binders. There is no inventory. And if they store or use mixtures of chemicals, the CHP requires the professor to write their own SDSs to cover the hazards of the mixture. I wouldn't even try that.
For another example, EH&S only has to supply the professors with containers for waste. It is the professors' job to determine which wastes require collection, write the EPA label, supervise waste collection, and call for a pick up. That takes knowledge of the EPA and local waste rules. So my guess it's just "Oops" and down the drain.
And the art department plans are calling for dozens of individual studios called "research studios" where they apparently can use any chemical or art material or equipment they take it into their heads to use and they have 24 hour access to these studios.
When I do my presentation for the art faculty I will try to make these points and the need for ventilation and limits on materials, but I don't have any real hope of making a dent after what I've seen and read.
I will write this report VERY carefully. There is a fine line between trying to do a good job for a client and, instead, aiding and abetting them. And I'm not sure where the "due diligence" and "failure to warn" boundaries are here But I need to try to find them. Any and all advice is welcome.
Monona
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