DCHAS-L Archives, Oct 24 2019 - Re: [DCHAS-L] *EXT* Re: [DCHAS-L] LD50 Source Data

If the engineers on the job don't already have the manual and experience designing industrial systems, they are the wrong people for the job. They can't learn to do this on your job.

I also have serious reservations about the ASHRAE lab standard. The only reason it comes close to working is the fume hoods are already designed to ACGIH standards and they are purchased as off-the-shelf units that just need to be connected to ductwork. If you need anything other than a fume hood, they are usually unable to provide it.

Monona Rossol, M.S., M.F.A., Industrial Hygienist President: Arts, Crafts & Theater Safety, Inc. Safety Officer: Local USA829, IATSE 181 Thompson St., #23 New York, NY 10012 212-777-0062actsnyc**At_Symbol_Here**cs.com www.artscraftstheatersafety.org

-----Original Message-----
From: Anne R Hawkins <AnneHawkins**At_Symbol_Here**FERRIS.EDU>
To: DCHAS-L <DCHAS-L**At_Symbol_Here**PRINCETON.EDU>
Sent: Thu, Oct 24, 2019 06:00 AM
Subject: Re: [DCHAS-L] *EXT* Re: [DCHAS-L] LD50 Source Data

HI Zack,

Thanks for the information!!! I think I have all of D. Jeff Burton's books. I have read them and love them. I cannot say enough about them they are wonderful!!! I have gone through the AIHA self-study courses but the courses are lacking the information I am looking for.

I have gone through the ASHRAE Laboratory Design Guide for Planning and Operation of Laboratory HVAC System 2015-it gets closer to what I am looking for.

When I answered the original question " Can anybody give me a sense of how ACGIH can support many of our needs"

I want back to some of my most recent experiences involving the design of laboratories at my university for wood working, welding, and pharmacy laboratories. ( For clarification my university has defined anything involving hands on as a laboratory.) You know you are in an uphill "battle" with the design team when you tell them what the laboratory's Engineering Standards are for the ventilation systems and that they are based in part on ACGIH Industrial Ventilation Manual. That blank deer in the headlights look I received from the mechanical engineer and design firm team members was jaw dropping. They did not know anything about the ACGIH Industrial Ventilation Manual. I had to bring the manual to the next meeting so they could see it---so they could order it for their firms.

I do not want to keep the list stuck on this as there are many issue out there- so I will end my thoughts with this---I want to register a need for ACGIH to develop, or target market materials for architect, architectural firms, mechanical engineers, HVAC balancing firms and Facility Managers on laboratory ventilation design for the laboratories I listed in my original email. It has been my experience if the ventilation is not designed correctly, used correctly, or maintained correctly=E2=80"the "protection" for the operator will not be there and the headaches for the EHS professionals, the laboratory end users and the poor service technicians just begins.

Thank you all for considering my suggestion on "..how ACGIH can support many of our needs". Have a wonderful day.

Best Regards,

Anne

Anne Hawkins

Academic Affairs Director of Laboratory Safety

Provost Office

231-591-2154

From: ACS Division of Chemical Health and Safety <DCHAS-L**At_Symbol_Here**PRINCETON.EDU> On Behalf Of Zack Mansdorf
Sent: Wednesday, October 23, 2019 2:46 PM
To: DCHAS-L**At_Symbol_Here**PRINCETON.EDU
Subject: Re: [DCHAS-L] *EXT* Re: [DCHAS-L] LD50 Source Data

My friend and colleague, D. Jeff Burton is a highly respected ventilation engineer that has been writing books and teaching courses for a very long time. Jeff is or was active in ASHRAE, ASSP and ACGIH as well as a Past President of AIHA. AIHA has at least 3 self-study courses by Jeff in ventilation. You can find him under IVE, Inc.

Zack

S.Z. Mansdorf, PhD, CIH, CSP, QEP

Consultant in EHS and Sustainability

7184 Via Palomar

Boca Raton, FL 33433

561-212-7288

From: ACS Division of Chemical Health and Safety <DCHAS-L**At_Symbol_Here**PRINCETON.EDU> On Behalf Of Lawrence M Gibbs
Sent: Wednesday, October 23, 2019 1:47 PM
To: DCHAS-L**At_Symbol_Here**PRINCETON.EDU
Subject: Re: [DCHAS-L] *EXT* Re: [DCHAS-L] LD50 Source Data

The Ventilation Committee of ACGIH has been at the forefront of ventilation design for hazard control since the inception of the professional association. It has some of the best ventilation engineering individuals who, on a volunteer basis, regularly review and update the various ventilation design and operation manuals published by ACGIH. The committee, under the auspices of ACGIH, also offers ventilation design and review short courses regularly.

If there is interest in a short course or training program on research laboratory ventilation design, DCHS could certainly approach ACGIH or other very knowledgeable lab design specialists. There are also a number of good lab ventilation design engineers available in other companies as well.

Larry

Lawrence M. Gibbs, CIH, FAIHA

Associate Vice Provost Emeritus

Stanford University

lgibbs**At_Symbol_Here**stanford.edu

From: ACS Division of Chemical Health and Safety [mailto:DCHAS-L**At_Symbol_Here**PRINCETON.EDU] On Behalf Of Anne R Hawkins
Sent: Wednesday, October 23, 2019 9:02 AM
To: DCHAS-L**At_Symbol_Here**PRINCETON.EDU
Subject: Re: [DCHAS-L] *EXT* Re: [DCHAS-L] LD50 Source Data

Thank you for this opportunity to speak up.

If I have missed these offerings please forgive me, but I would like to see ACGIH support us by establishing on line training in the very basic of laboratory ventilation design. I am often involved in the design stages of new laboratories and use the ACGIH manual as reference for the Engineering Specifications for my university. I am concern how many architect, architectural firms, and mechanical engineers are not aware of this document or how to apply it. Yet they have design laboratories at universities throughout the country. L And companies offering hood testing and balancing are just as bad-they do not know of the resource and how to apply it.

As I look at laboratory safety from a global perspective it begins with a good design. That means for all areas that one may not consider a laboratory such as but not limited to

Gross Anatomy laboratory

Pathology laboratory

Autopsy

Laboratories that are intended for open design and team work

Animal Research

Microelectronics and Cleanrooms

Art/Printmaking Studio

Photographic and Imaging

Woodworking

Metal working

Biological

Pharmaceuticals

Storerooms that support the different laboratories

Radioactive

Automotive Service floor

Heavy Equipment Service floor

The list goes on. Just having a manual is great but I want a source that can be the point source that will supply the necessary training on laboratory ventilation design that will incorporate the ACGIH ventilation manual. ( I do not care if they use outside sources for this-I just want it in one spot.) The courses need to be designed to address the different laboratory ventilation needs as well as the different audiences from architect, architectural firms and mechanical engineers, mechanical contractors, EHS professionals, HVAC professional as well as the individuals who will maintain the facilities. I have come across so many firms that do not understand where to get the training once they understand the importance of it.

I also would like to see as part of the online courses-one that addresses how to commission of the equipment and system to ensure they are meeting the designs.

Again if I have missed these types of offerings from ACGIH please forgive me=E2=80"If this is the case them my comment would be the web design is lacking as it was not easy to find them.

Best Regards,

Anne

Anne Hawkins DHSc, MSPH, MA, C(ASCP), CHSP, CEHP, CSP

Academic Affairs Director of Laboratory Safety

Office of the Provost

Ferris State University

1201 S. State Street

Big Rapids, Mi 49307

213-591-2154

From: ACS Division of Chemical Health and Safety <DCHAS-L**At_Symbol_Here**PRINCETON.EDU> On Behalf Of James Wasil
Sent: Wednesday, October 23, 2019 11:05 AM
To: DCHAS-L**At_Symbol_Here**PRINCETON.EDU
Subject: *EXT* Re: [DCHAS-L] LD50 Source Data

Can anybody give me a sense of how ACGIH can support many of our needs?

Jim Wasil

Cochair CERM2020

From: ACS Division of Chemical Health and Safety <DCHAS-L**At_Symbol_Here**PRINCETON.EDU> On Behalf Of Jim Stewart
Sent: Friday, October 18, 2019 12:40 PM
To: DCHAS-L**At_Symbol_Here**PRINCETON.EDU
Subject: Re: [DCHAS-L] LD50 Source Data

RTECS: The Registry of Toxic Effects of Chemical Substances is a toxicology database is compiled, maintained by NIOSH is a great source.The link to the NIOSH site where RTECS is discussed is:

https://www.cdc.gov/niosh/rtecs/rtecsaccess.html

If you access RTECS there will be a charge because NIOSH has retailers working with them who actually provide access. If you want RTECS information for a specific compound/element I recommend the "NIOSH Pocket Guide" because there is an entry in the chemical's record containing a direct link to that particular RTECS record for that chemical and it is free when accessed in this manner.. The link to the methylene chloride record in the "Pocket Guide" is:

https://www.cdc.gov/niosh/npg/npgd0414.html

There are other sources of values such as the LD50 like HSDB, DART and others available on TOXNET (free).

James H. Stewart, Ph.D., CIH, CSP

On Fri, Oct 18, 2019 at 10:18 AM Joseph Smith <information**At_Symbol_Here**canaverallaboratories.com> wrote:

ACGIH manual lists LD50.

On Fri, Oct 18, 2019 at 6:26 AM Nora Dunkel <noradunkel51**At_Symbol_Here**webster.edu> wrote:

Does anyone know where to find the studies/source data for LD50 values listed in SDSs? I'm specifically looking for studies/data on the reproductive/developmental hazards of methylene chloride and N-methyl-2-pyrrolidone (CAS # 872-50-4). Is there a database somewhere or does each manufacturer keep its source data in-house?

Thanks!

Nora Dunkel

Chemical Safety Officer

Webster University

314 246 2244

661 348 1445

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