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Previous by Date: Subject: Re: [DCHAS-L] Letter to the National PTA regarding the rainbow flame demo Date: Monday, June 24, 2019 at 10:58:42 AM Author: Peter Zavon <pzavon**At_Symbol_Here**rochester.rr.com> |
Next by Date: Subject: [DCHAS-L] Request for the community guidance and input Date: Mon, 24 Jun 2019 15:09:37 +0000 Author: "Gmurczyk, Marta" |
Hi everybody:
I've been following this thread all weekend. I can't say I disagree with anybody, but this is my take on the situation, since many of the folks who make decisions
in schools have no science background and even fewer have science safety information:
1.
It all comes down to the goals and objectives of the lesson. I have never seen any science standards anywhere that suggest that our goal is to entertain
our students. With any procedure, I ask, "what is the learning objective, and how does this demonstration contribute to achieving that objective?" Then I ask, "what is the student task?" If it's to oooh and aaah, I send the teacher back to the drawing board.
2.
Regarding, "are we allowed to use this or not?" I have a pretty stock answer:
a. What does the law say?
b. What does district policy say?
c. If the answer to the above questions are, "nothing really," I explain the process of
hazard analysis (what are sources of harm? Read the SDS. Read the literature),
risk assessment (based on the hazard analysis, how likely is harm and how bad could harm get?) and
safety actions (the NIOSH hierarchy: elimination, substitution, engineering controls, administrative controls, Personal protective equipment). The teacher/school administration/district administration can make this decision based on what's in the best
interest of the students.
Of course, my job is to provide guidance with these, but using this process helps teachers and administrators plan for safety purposefully.
3.
Regarding the warning, "don't try this at home": I have found this warning has a zero percent success rate. Instead, go back to point 1, and decide:
what do you want to tell students and parents about this procedure? If you doubt my claim at the beginning of this point, think about how successfully the "just say Ôno!'" campaign of the 1980s worked!
4.
If safety planning isn't part of the lesson plan, there's no reason to think it will occur. Likewise, if "safety actions" is part of the lesson plan,
it becomes a routine, and teachers not only start planning for it, but start expecting students to include "safety actions" in graded work.
5.
The reality of the K-12 classroom is that there are many people (frequently too many) in a single space getting a single message in a short period of
time. By definition, they are novices in science, and they are minorsÑtherefore, the teacher has an automatic Duty of Care. Some procedures that are age appropriate may not be appropriate for the school setting. This is why we prepare lesson plans and risk
assessments.
When I was a high school chemistry/physical science teacher, my students did the flame test with wood splints soaked in the various compounds. However, I had some
classes for which this was not feasible (usually over 30 students). In those cases, I showed video footage (this was back in the days of VHS tapes) of 4th of July fireworks at Penns Landing (Philadelphia).
Eddie McGrath
Edward J. McGrath
Supervisor of Science
Red Clay Consolidated School District
1502 Spruce Avenue
Wilmington, DE 19805
(302) 552-3768
We did not inherit the Earth from our parents. We borrowed it from our children.
From: ACS Division of Chemical Health and Safety <DCHAS-L**At_Symbol_Here**PRINCETON.EDU>
On Behalf Of Gmurczyk, Marta
Sent: Monday, June 24, 2019 9:20 AM
To: DCHAS-L**At_Symbol_Here**PRINCETON.EDU
Subject: [External] Re: [DCHAS-L] [EXT] Re: [DCHAS-L] Letter to the National PTA regarding the rainbow flame demo
Dear All:
I have been following the discussion regarding the rainbow flame demo. My colleague Kim Duncan and I have collaborate to put together the following site related
to the safer flame tests.
https://www.acs.org/content/acs/en/chemical-safety/teach-and-learn/flame-test.html
If you have any suggestions how to improve this page, please let me know. Please feel free to use this page in your communications with teachers.
Sincerely,
Marta Gmurczyk
Marta U. Gmurczyk, Ph.D.
Safety Programs Manager| Scientific Advancement Division
1155 16th St., NW | Washington | DC 20036
T 202-452-2105 | F 202-872-8068
http://www.acs.org/">www.acs.org
--------------------
ACS Chemistry for Life
American Chemical Society
From: ACS Division of Chemical Health and Safety <DCHAS-L**At_Symbol_Here**PRINCETON.EDU>
On Behalf Of Mary Shane
Sent: Sunday, June 23, 2019 11:14 PM
To: DCHAS-L**At_Symbol_Here**PRINCETON.EDU
Subject: [EXT] Re: [DCHAS-L] Letter to the National PTA regarding the rainbow flame demo
[Actual Sender is owner-dchas-l**At_Symbol_Here**princeton.edu]
I have done this as a microscale lab. I make the solutions before hand and never have the alcohol still in the lab. I use small candles and cotton swabs. It has worked safely but I can see where it can go wrong. I am going to try the
method mentioned using long cotton swabs soaked in distilled water and dipped in the salts. If it gives the same results, I will switch to the new method and share with my colleagues. We have been told not to use methanol and I have only used it for this
lab. I think the AP Chemistry teacher used it last year. I will be that teacher this next year and will look to see if methanol can be completely removed.
On Sat, Jun 22, 2019 at 12:43 PM Eric Goff <ericwgoff**At_Symbol_Here**gmail.com> wrote:
I agree with Peter.
What we do is soak cotton swabs (The long Q-tip type ones) in
distilled water for about an hour. Dip the end in the various salts
and get the same result when burning. Others use wooden stirrers /
popsicle type sticks and do the same and get the same result.
Perhaps we should be assisting those in the classroom with viable
alternatives for this and other activities.
Best Regards,
-Eric
On 6/22/19, pzavon**At_Symbol_Here**rochester.rr.com <pzavon**At_Symbol_Here**rochester.rr.com> wrote:
> One thing I notice about this letter and many other comments about
> this demonstration directed to educators is the frequent absence of
> guidance on how to perform it more safely, or on alternative, less
> hazardous, demonstrations that would illustrate the same principles.
> In my experience, it is usually more effective to provide alternatives
> than to simply say "don't do that."
> Decades ago, my then boss at Princeton University used to say to
> faculty members something along the lines of "I am not telling you
> that you can't to that; I am telling you that you can't do it in the
> way you have been accustomed to doing it."
> Peter Zavon, CIHPenfield, NY(on location in Cincinnati, OH)
>
> -----------------------------------------From: "davivid"
> To: DCHAS-L**At_Symbol_Here**PRINCETON.EDU
> Cc:
> Sent: Friday June 21 2019 6:36:30PM
> Subject: [DCHAS-L] Letter to the National PTA regarding the rainbow
> flame demo
>
> Here is a letter I just emailed to the National PTA. Let's hope this
> helps get some progress on the issue.
>
> Dave Lane
> Principal
> Clavis Technology Development
>
> -------- Forwarded Message --------
> Subject: Dangerous classroom demonstration
> Date: Fri, 21 Jun 2019 15:31:09 -0700
> From: davivid
> To: info**At_Symbol_Here**pta.org
>
> Dear PTA Gatekeeper
>
> I write to call your attention to a common classroom demonstration
> that
> injures students in several incidents every year. I hope that the PTA
>
> can help end this practice by informing parents and schools of the
> danger.
>
> The demonstration is typically called the "Rainbow Flame" or similar.
> It
> involves solutions of various metal salts dissolved in alcohol that
> are
> set on fire. The different metal salts give various colored flames,
> hence "rainbow flame". If alcohol is poured near flame or other
> ignition
> source the alcohol can suddenly erupt from the bottle in a phenomenon
>
> called "flame jetting". The jet of flaming alcohol can severely burn
> anyone in the path of the flames even as far as ten feet away.
>
> Here are some links describing flame jetting.
>
> Dangerous ÔFlame Jetting' Phenomenon Kills Hundreds Every Year
>
> Here are links to some recent instances of flame jetting that have
> injured students
>
>
>
> Links:
> ------
> [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kkBFG1mTSBk
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kkBFG1mTSBk
> /> A Safer
>
>
> ---
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--
Best Regards,
-Eric
Eric W. Goff
Chemistry Educator
---
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