Brandon,

You are probably 100% correct in that Earth Sciences labs will not be using for a bunch of flammables. They generally use small quantity Hach kits and such. In that case, and with such a short timeframe, I would just not vent them.

My 2 cents...

Monique

-----Original Message-----
From: ACS Division of Chemical Health and Safety [mailto:DCHAS-L**At_Symbol_Here**PRINCETON.EDU] On Behalf Of Chance, Brandon
Sent: Sunday, March 05, 2017 9:31 PM
To: DCHAS-L**At_Symbol_Here**PRINCETON.EDU
Subject: Re: [DCHAS-L] Venting UNDER HOOD Flammable Cabinets

Debbie,

Always my voice of reason and keeping me sane. These hoods are all being installed in Earth Sciences labs (with one in engineering). I am thinking about the following course of action.

Option 1: Meet with all of the researchers and find out which plan to use as 3random storage2 with proper segregation, and which plan to use it as true 3flammable storage2. I suspect most will not be using it as solvent storage since these are not labs that use flammables or solvent much. In the cases where they are using them as random storage, vent them and remove/cover the flammable label. In the case of labs using them as flammable storage, keep the NFPA integrity and don1t vent them.

Option 2: I am overthinking and overcomplicating this whole endeavor and should just not vent them and be done with it.

I have about 48 hours to ultimately decide this. :)

Thanks for your comments,
Brandon

On 3/3/17, 6:00 PM, "ACS Division of Chemical Health and Safety on behalf of Debbie M. Decker" wrote:

>Ooo - I'd be concerned about that. Very.
>
>Had a situation once where the under-hood flam storage cabinet was
>vented directly into the fume hood, through the work surface, behind
>the baffles. The vent material was Polypropylene, which supports
>combustion, creating a fire pathway directly into the flam cabinet, if
>a fire were to develop in the fume hood.
>
>I made them remove the vent, cap and seal the holes in the work surface
>with epoxy and then vent it directly into the exhaust above the fume
>hood. And then worked closely with the Fire Marshal to create the
>document I referenced earlier.
>
>If it's too expensive to do it correctly, then it will be even more
>expensive to correct it when Something Bad happens later.
>
>My $0.02 worth.
>
>Debbie
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: ACS Division of Chemical Health and Safety
>[mailto:DCHAS-L**At_Symbol_Here**PRINCETON.EDU] On Behalf Of Chance, Brandon
>Sent: Friday, March 03, 2017 3:28 PM
>To: DCHAS-L**At_Symbol_Here**PRINCETON.EDU
>Subject: Re: [DCHAS-L] Venting UNDER HOOD Flammable Cabinets
>
>Ralph, you hit it on the head.
>
>My thoughts on this are that labs that are using the under hood
>cabinets for flammable storage are storing relatively small amounts
>(relative to full size storage cabinets, which I would not vent) and in
>many cases are storing secondary containers of various shapes, sizes,
>and seals. Not to mention, due to ease in access, researchers tend to
>store everything under the sun in the cabinets.
>
>From an exposure standpoint, I would rather them be vented and in most
>cases, due to cost, they are not going to be vented directly to the
>outside per NFPA 30, but vented behind the hood baffles with the little
>inexpensive vent kits that manufacturers provide.
>
>Insofar as the stakeholders, every research I have ever asked wants
>them vented so that they don1t stink.
>
>
>Regards,
>
>Brandon S. Chance, M.S., CCHO
>Associate Director of Environmental Health and Safety Office of Risk
>Management Southern Methodist University PO Box 750231 | Dallas, TX
>75275-0231
>T) 214.768.2430 | M) 469-978-8664
>bchance**At_Symbol_Here**smu.edu
>
>
>" our job in safety is to make the task happen, SAFELY; not to
>interfere with the work2 Neal Langerman
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>On 3/3/17, 4:15 PM, "ACS Division of Chemical Health and Safety on
>behalf of Stuart, Ralph" >ralph.stuart**At_Symbol_Here**KEENE.EDU> wrote:
>
>>> >I have read a number of other university design standards and they
>>>are also inconsistent.
>>
>>I have seen similarly inconsistent approaches to this question from
>>project to project even within the same institution with a single
>>design standard.
>>
>>In my mind, it's a classic capital costs vs. operating costs question,
>>as installing compliant vents for a flammable cabinet requires the
>>expense and time of finding a protected route to the building's
>>exhaust point. On the other hand, skipping the venting means that
>>inventory control of the contents of the cabinet becomes very
>>important to protect the quality of the stored chemicals and the
>>exposure of the lab workers to unpredictable chemical emissions. So I
>>think that the outcome of this discussion, as with so many lab design
>>questions, will depend on the project budget and the relative
>>priorities of the stakeholders in the design process.
>>
>>Good luck!
>>
>>- Ralph
>>
>>Ralph Stuart, CIH, CCHO
>>Environmental Safety Manager
>>Keene State College
>>603 358-2859
>>
>>ralph.stuart**At_Symbol_Here**keene.edu
>>
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>>Chemical Health and Safety.
>>For more information about the list, contact the Divisional secretary
>>at secretary**At_Symbol_Here**dchas.org
>
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>For more information about the list, contact the Divisional secretary
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