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Previous by Date: Subject: Re: [DCHAS-L] A mid-winter Lab Safety koan Date: Wednesday, February 17, 2016 11:20:29 AM Author: "Wright, Mike" <mwright**At_Symbol_Here**USW.ORG> |
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You asked: "Do the art students accept the hazard and hazard-avoidance information at face value more readily? I would assume so."The art and theater students arrive split in two camps:
1) we are immortal, risk is a good and necessary part of the artistic process and how dare you try to obstruct our pathway to becoming great artists; and
2) everything is toxic, part of a capitalist plot and I've brought my glass bottle of aloe juice to keep hydrated during your boring lecture.
In addition, both camps arrive with almost no capacity to reason, have no math skills so statistics are hard to use, have no clue what a chemical is much less that it comes in the forms of gases, vapors, fumes, dusts, nanoparticles, and smoke, and many more deficits directly attributable to restructuring educational institutions to attract students rather than to teach them something.
It is why I will not do a hazcom training in under 4 hours. I have worked out a devious system to build those basics into the training in way they can use the concepts as soon as they learn them. Come see me sometime. You are unlikely to be bored. And all my tricks are free for the stealing.
Monona Rossol, M.S., M.F.A., Industrial HygienistPresident: Arts, Crafts & Theater Safety, Inc.Safety Officer: Local USA829, IATSE181 Thompson St., #23New York, NY 10012 212-777-0062
-----Original Message-----
From: Dan Kuespert <dkuespert**At_Symbol_Here**JHU.EDU>
To: DCHAS-L <DCHAS-L**At_Symbol_Here**MED.CORNELL.EDU>
Sent: Wed, Feb 17, 2016 8:28 am
Subject: Re: [DCHAS-L] Updated glove video
I quite agree on all points. Just pointing out that we're simplifying the issue (which is something I'm often in favor of, assuming the simplification errs on the conservative side.
As far as art students understanding versus chemistry students, I find that the researchers tend to reject "safety rules" out of hand unless the reasons behind them and, to some extent, the limitations of the assumptions used, are explained to them. Do the art students accept the hazard and hazard-avoidance information at face value more readily? I would assume so.
regards,dan
On Feb 16, 2016, at 08:32, Monona Rossol <actsnyc**At_Symbol_Here**CS.COM> wrote:
Cool. But I wouldn't make it this complicated for the video. The only two things needed are:
1. Information that many chemicals can penetrate gloves quickly without changing their appearance or elasticity, and
2. A single sentence from the first paragraph of the glove chart:
"Gloves should be removed and replaced immediately if incidental splash exposure occurs."
Calculating dose based on the chart is interesting but can underestimate risk if the gloves are tight or stretched over the portion of the hand where the splash occurs. So erring on the side of caution and simply removing and replacing them is the best strategy.
Besides, this is the manufacturer's recommendation. There are legal reasons for including it.
For those that don't have the chart, the whole first paragraph is:
"Incidental Exposure Only
Kimberly-Clark* Nitrile Gloves are thin gauge disposable gloves designed to providebarrier protection and tactile sensitivity to the wearer. Our thin mil gloves are not designedfor applications involving prolonged, direct exposure to chemicals. Our intent in providingthis chemical compatibility information is to provide a guideline for use of our thin mil gloves inapplications where incidental splash exposure to various chemicals may occur. Gloves should beremoved and replaced immediately if incidental splash exposure occurs."
Come on guys. If the people I train in your art departments understand this, surely your chemistry students can. Onward and upward.
Monona Rossol, M.S., M.F.A., Industrial HygienistPresident: Arts, Crafts & Theater Safety, Inc.Safety Officer: Local USA829, IATSE181 Thompson St., #23New York, NY 10012 212-777-0062
-----Original Message-----
From: Dan Kuespert <dkuespert**At_Symbol_Here**JHU.EDU>
To: DCHAS-L <DCHAS-L**At_Symbol_Here**MED.CORNELL.EDU>
Sent: Tue, Feb 16, 2016 7:41 am
Subject: Re: [DCHAS-L] Updated glove video
I mentioned this to Ralph offline since I thought it a bit off-topic, but Monona's post makes it relevant. One thing we need to be inculcating in students is the difference between incidental contact and immersion/frequent contact applications of gloves.
I know of an incident that involved researchers (accidentally) spraying acetonitrile solution on their K-C Purple Nitrile gloves instead of 70% ethanol. Fortunately, acetonitrile is volatile and it was determined that the gloves would stay wet for a minute or less, during which K-C's penetration data indicated a dose in the tens of picograms range. If they'd been dipping their hands in the mixture or washing handheld microscope slides for a half-hour or something, there would have been the potential for a much larger dose. Similarly, if Karen Wetterhahn had immediately removed her latex gloves instead of finishing her work first, she might have avoided her lethal dose of dimethylmercury.
I think it's important that students understand that the application/expected contact time affects the choice of suitable gloves.. If you can expect very short contact time (and the penetration time isn=E2=80™t near-instant), AND your application is such that you'll actually notice the exposure, the Purple Nitrile gloves are suitable even for some chemicals that are colored red on the K-C chart. It's kind of a complicated topic, though, so I don't see it being related in a video. Having a full understanding of the issues involved in this might, as a side effect, encourage researchers to design their experiments to minimize the potential for hand contact (holding the slides with forceps to keep the hands out of the rinse solvent stream, etc.)
(In the incident mentioned, there was of course a potential for inhalation exposure; fortunately, the spray was carried out in a ventilation stream right in front of a BSC, in a direction away from the researcher's breathing zone, so that was minimal.)
regards,dan
=============================Dr. Daniel R. KuespertHomewood Laboratory Safety AdvocateKrieger School of Arts & Sciences/Whiting School of EngineeringThe Johns Hopkins University103G Shaffer Hall3400 North Charles St.Baltimore, MD 21218(410) 516-5525
On Feb 12, 2016, at 17:47, Monona Rossol <actsnyc**At_Symbol_Here**CS.COM> wrote:
In the first student video, why not simply say that both methanol and methylene chloride are capable of penetrating these thin nitrile Kimberly Clark gloves in under a minute? And that if users are interested they can use the chart to see the rate at which the solvent is passed through the glove? And why not actually use Kimberly Clarks' recommendation that gloves be immediately removed if there is an incidental splash of the chemicals on the glove?
Monona Rossol, M.S., M.F.A., Industrial HygienistPresident: Arts, Crafts & Theater Safety, Inc.Safety Officer: Local USA829, IATSE181 Thompson St., #23New York, NY 10012 212-777-0062
-----Original Message-----
From: Stuart, Ralph <Ralph.Stuart**At_Symbol_Here**KEENE.EDU>
To: DCHAS-L <DCHAS-L**At_Symbol_Here**MED.CORNELL.EDU>
Sent: Wed, Feb 10, 2016 8:07 am
Subject: [DCHAS-L] Updated glove video
I thought I would let DCHAS-L know that I significantly updated the nitrile glove video based on comments from the list last month. The updated version is available at
https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.youtube.com_watch-3Fv-3DIHkbt4f0EoY&d=BQIFAg&c=lb62iw4YL4RFalcE2hQUQealT9-RXrryqt9KZX2qu2s&r=meWM1Buqv4IQ27AlK1OJRjcQl09S1Zta6YXKalY_Io0&m=W291786H3JsSy8kOZKU_u7zksCkhYJPbbQ96TqVRUdE&s=ufadEy5f2_ZEra5lxo_EcMUUx9puPQ86qv0htULmSZc&e=
In addition to adding information to the video, most specifically a reference to the Kimberly Clark nitrile glove selection guide, there is now a link at the Youtube site to a pdf file that inlcudes the powerpoint slides that appear in the video (this is partially to address issues that they go by too quickly in the video). There are also quiz and discussion questions for the video that might help it be of use in teaching lab settings. I hope to develop a module for the Keene State learning managing system that will allow this information to be included in undergraduate chemistry labs easily.
Comments and questions on the video would be appreciated.
- Ralph
Ralph Stuart, CIH, CCHO
Chemical Hygiene Officer
Keene State College
ralph..stuart**At_Symbol_Here**keene.edu
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