That's consistent with my feeling.  All these little fixes, such as explaining to chemists they shouldn't pour solvent on a flame, are going nowhere. This fixes one demo at a time.  What is missing is the basic safety training which should be taught over a number of years of school and development of a deep general knowledge of how chemicals behave. That knowledge can't be cerebral.  It needs to be visceral due to a lot of hands on experience.

All that is just plain missing in most graduates today.  Maybe it's that they use computers instead of hands on.  But whatever the cause, the demos have to go.

We have the same issues in Art and Theater.  College age kids are coming into programs who have never used a screw driver or a hammer and they want to work on table saws and try to weld.  You can't do that with your thumbs--which are the only coordinated appendages they have.

We are assuming these young chemistry grads have skills they just don't have.  Their minds and verbal skills are quick so we assume they also have knowledge, safety savvy and common sense.  They don't.  

Take their toys away.  Leave the "entertainment through chemistry" to people specially experienced in doing this in rooms equipped for it.  How many more times do we have to see this same thing to "get it?"

Monona Rossol, M.S., M.F.A., Industrial Hygienist

President:  Arts, Crafts & Theater Safety, Inc.

Safety Officer: Local USA829, IATSE

181 Thompson St., #23

New York, NY 10012     212-777-0062

actsnyc**At_Symbol_Here**cs.com   www.artscraftstheatersafety.org

 

-----Original Message-----
From: roberth_hill <roberth_hill**At_Symbol_Here**MINDSPRING.COM>
To: DCHAS-L <DCHAS-L**At_Symbol_Here**MED.CORNELL.EDU>
Sent: Fri, Nov 6, 2015 6:42 pm
Subject: Re: [DCHAS-L] NSTA Urges Science Educators to Halt the Use of Methanol-Based Flame Tests on Open Laboratory Desks

I guess I think this happened because the teacher did not recognize or understand the hazard. I think this is because their safety education was missing or inadequate and/or a safety ethic was missing or inadequate. Most of you have heard my thoughts on this before.  Until we start educating our undergraduates in lab safety,  we will continue to have teachers, graduate students, and chemists with poor knowledge of safety and poor safety ethics. 

Robert H. Hill, Jr.

Co-author of Laboratory Safety for Chemistry Students 

Sent from my Verizon Wireless 4G LTE smartphone

-------- Original message --------
From: Rita Kay Calhoun <r.calhoun**At_Symbol_Here**MOREHEADSTATE.EDU>
Date: 11/06/2015 3:55 PM (GMT-05:00)
To: DCHAS-L**At_Symbol_Here**MED.CORNELL.EDU
Subject: Re: [DCHAS-L] NSTA Urges Science Educators to Halt the Use of Methanol-Based Flame Tests on Open Laboratory Desks

I disagree that the question is why did the teacher do the demo.  The question was why was the teacher so stupid as to pour a flammable liquid onto a flame.  Anyone over the age of 6 should know that this is dangerous.  I sometimes wonder if the recent increase in the apparent lack of "common sense" (yes, I said common sense because it is common sense to be wary of flames) is an unexpected result of the fear of even minor dangers that has resulted in many schools only doing experiments that a kindergartener could do.  In order to be able to cross a street safely, you actually have to practice crossing a street safely.   Rather than throwing the baby out with the bathwater, perhaps we should learn/teach how to bathe the baby without drowning it.

Kay


-----Original Message-----
From: DCHAS-L Discussion List [mailto:dchas-l**At_Symbol_Here**med.cornell.edu] On Behalf Of Frankie Wood-Black
Sent: Friday, November 06, 2015 3:07 PM
To: DCHAS-L**At_Symbol_Here**MED.CORNELL.EDU
Subject: Re: [DCHAS-L] NSTA Urges Science Educators to Halt the Use of Methanol-Based Flame Tests on Open Laboratory Desks

A question for the group and maybe to a wider audience.  After the last set of announcements and the CSB alert, my question is related to why this teacher chose to do it.  One reason may have been that they felt they could do it because they had numerous times.  The other is that they were unaware of the recommendations NOT to do this particular demonstration anymore.  SO - my question is - is there an avenue that we should be using to inform teachers about the hazards of this experiment that have not been utilized previously - and if so - what would it be????