DCHAS-L Archives, Dec 15 2014 - Re: [DCHAS-L] lab occupancies and fire codes

From: Michael Ng <Michael.Ng**At_Symbol_Here**liu.edu>
Subject: Re: [DCHAS-L] lab occupancies and fire codes
Date: Mon, 15 Dec 2014 17:33:07 +0000
Reply-To: DCHAS-L <DCHAS-L**At_Symbol_Here**MED.CORNELL.EDU>
Message-ID: D0B47F0A.556D3%michael.ng**At_Symbol_Here**liu.edu
In-Reply-To <009a01d010b7$1e3231d0$5a969570$**At_Symbol_Here**gmail.com>

Mel,

I?ve been in the same boat before, as the institution was looking to pack more students in labs as a cost effective way to maximize the use of the lab. The question was how much is the legal maximum occupancy for the laboratory.

If possible, please see if your institution has a certificate of occupancy for the building where the labs in question are located in. Typically, the certificate of occupancy will dictate the maximum occupancy for each floor, the live load per square feet, and the occupancy group (I.e. Theater, laboratory, classroom, offices, etc.).

All buildings are unique and their occupancies and live/moving loads are determined the design of the building. One of my science buildings has a live load rating of 60lb/SF and another science building across the campus is rated 75lb/SF.

Occupancy is typically determined, typically through a registered architect, based on the available square footage of space that remains, after deduction of fixed furniture/lab casework square footage and egress / escape pathway square footage.

Michael Ng
Environmental Health and Safety Manager
Project Manager
Long Island University Brooklyn Campus
Buildings and Grounds
1 University Plaza M301
Brooklyn, NY 11201
Tel: (718)-488-1608
Fax: (718)-488-3337
michael.ng**At_Symbol_Here**liu.edu

From: Tom Slavin >
Reply-To: DCHAS-L >
Date: Fri, 5 Dec 2014 12:13:04 -0600
To: >
Subject: Re: [DCHAS-L] lab occupancies and fire codes

Good find. Section 17.1.1.5 of NFPA 5000 refers instructional laboratories in educational occupancies to the business occupancy classification (paralleling the treatment in the International Fire Code) . Table 11.3.1.2 specifies an occupancy factor of 100 sq. feet per person gross (inside exterior walls). This also lines up with the IFC.

Tom

From: DCHAS-L Discussion List [mailto:dchas-l**At_Symbol_Here**MED.CORNELL.EDU] On Behalf Of Melissa Charlton-Smith
Sent: Friday, December 05, 2014 9:40 AM
To: DCHAS-L**At_Symbol_Here**MED.CORNELL.EDU
Subject: Re: [DCHAS-L] lab occupancies and fire codes

After some digging I found code 5000 Building Construction and Safety Code from NFPA which has a nice occupancy load table that lists educational labs at 50sqft net per person. I am not sure if the net means after taking away square footage occupied by fixed furniture, lab benches and cabinetry, though I have sent out feelers for clarification. Will let everybody know what I find out when I find out.

Thanks so much for the feedback!

Mel

Mel Charlton-Smith
Chemistry Lab Coordinator, CHO-NRCC
Coordinator of BS-CHS program, Lecturer
WVWC ? Chemistry Dept.
CHS-319
59 College Ave
Buckhannon, WV 26201
charltonsmith**At_Symbol_Here**wvwc.edu
304-473-8355

From: DCHAS-L Discussion List [mailto:dchas-l**At_Symbol_Here**MED.CORNELL.EDU] On Behalf Of Yanchisin, Mark
Sent: Friday, December 5, 2014 10:29 AM
To: DCHAS-L**At_Symbol_Here**MED.CORNELL.EDU
Subject: Re: [DCHAS-L] lab occupancies and fire codes

Fire Marshals may look at it a bit different, as they also have to consider the route of egress, not the square footage between the walls. So 24 students in a room may be OK under one reg, but the FMs need to consider the routes those 24 folks need to take to get out. Are the aisles, doorways and stairs blocked, too narrow, too twisty or is the distance to travel to get out of the building too great? It is not always comparing apples to apples (UBC to NFPA).

Mark Yanchisin
Coordinator for Clinical and Laboratory Safety Programs
Environmental Health and Safety
University of Florida
POB 112190 Bldg 179 Newell Dr.
Gainesville, Fl 32611-2190
O- 352-392-1591
F- 352-392-3647
Mark**At_Symbol_Here**ehs.ufl.edu

From: DCHAS-L Discussion List [mailto:dchas-l**At_Symbol_Here**MED.CORNELL.EDU] On Behalf Of Samuella Sigmann
Sent: Friday, December 05, 2014 9:11 AM
To: DCHAS-L**At_Symbol_Here**MED.CORNELL.EDU
Subject: Re: [DCHAS-L] lab occupancies and fire codes

That is interesting.... this information is coming from our university people. I will have to have a conversation with our state fire inspector when he comes this year.
Sammye
On 12/5/2014 8:40 AM, Ray Cook wrote:
The occupant load area is determined by the space within the walls. I think that fire person is mistaken. As a past Fire Marshal, I recognize that the codes take into account the furnishings, which is why occupant load varies by facility usage or type.

Cheers!

Ray Cook, CIH, CSP
ApexHSE.com<http://ApexHSE.com>
832-477-4454

I Cor 1:18
Sent from my iPhone

On Dec 4, 2014, at 9:58 PM, Samuella Sigmann > wrote:
Ours is the same in NC. To further clarify, according to our fire person that 50 sq ft/person has to be unobstructed with permanent structures. We can't count the lab bench area - only the open floor space.

I have never measured our floor space - I might be afraid to...
S-

On 12/4/2014 7:29 PM, Debbie M. Decker wrote:
50 square feet per student ? our teaching labs are about 1200 square feet and so we accommodate 24 students in lab.

It?s in the fire code in California. Your mileage may vary.

Best,

Debbie M. Decker, CCHO
Safety Manager
Department of Chemistry
University of California, Davis
122 Chemistry
1 Shields Ave.
Davis, CA 95616
(530)754-7964
(530)304-6728
dmdecker**At_Symbol_Here**ucdavis.edu

Birkett's hypothesis: "Any chemical reaction
that proceeds smoothly under normal conditions,
can proceed violently in the presence of an idiot."

From: DCHAS-L Discussion List [mailto:dchas-l**At_Symbol_Here**MED.CORNELL.EDU] On Behalf Of Melissa Charlton-Smith
Sent: Thursday, December 04, 2014 6:11 AM
To: DCHAS-L**At_Symbol_Here**MED.CORNELL.EDU
Subject: [DCHAS-L] lab occupancies and fire codes

HI everybody,

This has probably been hashed over before, but it is a situation that may be cropping up at my institution and I need some ?ammo?. Are there and NFPA codes that anyone is aware of that limits the occupancy of a lab? I believe that 60-70 sq ft per person is recommended, but I am unable to find any code that specifically states that. I don?t want our local fire marshal to ?have a cow? if the school overloads a lab. I already have all my safety arguments lined out, but I?d like some solid regs and/or codes behind me as well.

You know how these things can crop up?you think you?ve drilled it into their collective heads that they can or can?t do something, but sometimes it seems to fall on deaf ears and then you are forced to be the bad guy and say LOOK at the regs! You CAN?T do this. Look at the liabilities (gotto throw up those $$$ signs).

Thanks all,

Mel

--
********************************************************************************************
We, the willing, led by the unknowing, are doing the impossible for the ungrateful. We have done so much, for so long, with so little, we are now qualified to do everything with nothing. Teresa Arnold
Samuella B. Sigmann, NRCC-CHO
Lecturer/Safety Committee Chair
A. R. Smith Department of Chemistry
Appalachian State University
525 Rivers Street
Boone, NC 28608
Phone: 828 262 2755
Fax: 828 262 6558
Email: sigmannsb**At_Symbol_Here**appstate.edu

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