Date: Thu, 30 Jun 2011 13:01:33 -0500
Reply-To: Todd Perkins <p3wt3r**At_Symbol_Here**charter.net>
Sender: DCHAS-L Discussion List <DCHAS-L**At_Symbol_Here**LIST.UVM.EDU>
From: Todd Perkins <p3wt3r**At_Symbol_Here**CHARTER.NET>
Subject: Re: Post request from Barry Ferm
In-Reply-To: <B5B4D17D072E084D9BAC1023273BCDEA0200E5FC**At_Symbol_Here**ZZV1UG-0200.DHSNET.DS1.DHS>


These systems are designed to knock down chemical fires by displacing Oxyge
n with non-combustible Carbon Dioxide. To do they must flush out the Oxygen
 with a sufficient excess of CO2. If you double the space which needs cover
age, you will likely need to more than double the amount of gas needed.  Two other things to keep in mind:
-  CO2 may be insufficient to immediately extinguish certain pyrophori
c substances and/or chemical reactions that can occur in the absence of fre
e oxygen.
-  CO2 is an asphyxiant. Anyone too close when the fire suppression sy
stem is activated is in danger of asphyxiation, including unconsciousness
 and possibly death, when CO2 displaces all the O2 in that area.

The installer of the system is your best resource for information.

Thanks,

Todd Perkins
Regional Safet Director
Airgas Mid America

On Jun 29, 2011 2:32 PM, Floyd, Karon <Karon.Floyd**At_Symbol_Here**DHS.GOV> wrote: 

CO2 is covered in NFPA 12. What I am going to say is that based on the

information provided below, if a gas system was installed for the

current rooms use, the same could be extended to the second room as

well. 


The real issue is that the system installed was calculated for a

specific area i.e. 400^2 and now you are adding to that space. In order

to cover the new area, an installer would need to recalculate both areas

combined and based on those calculations determine how much gas (CO2) is

needed. This should be done by a licensed installer that can certify the

system. 


Bill E. Anderson, Fire Chief

Office of the PIADC Safety Officer

U.S. Dept. of Homeland Security

Plum Island Fire Department

P.O. Box 848

Greenport, NY 11944-0848

Telephone: 631-323-3215

           Fax: 631-323-3053

            BB: 631-767-0495


-----Original Message-----

From: DCHAS-L Discussion List [mailto:DCHAS-L**At_Symbol_Here**list.uvm.edu] On Behalf Of

Ferm Barret A

Sent: Tuesday, June 28, 2011 4:04 PM

To: DCHAS-L**At_Symbol_Here**LIST.UVM.EDU

Subject: [DCHAS-L] Post request from Barry Ferm


Dear DCHAS,


I would like to have input as to what are the requirements,

recommendations or criteria for fire suppression in a chemical

stockroom.  Ours is ca. 400 ft^2, containing all the basics: gen org,

gen inorg, oxidizers, poisons, flammables, reactive metals, corrosives

(the latter 5 groups are in separate, ventilated cabinets).  We

currently have a CO2 system, but we are creating a second store room,

and want to know if we need a non-water suppression system.  Many

thanks!  Barry Ferm, St. Ambrose University.  FermBarretA**At_Symbol_Here**sau.edu


These systems are designed to knock down chemical fires by displacing Oxyge n with non-combustible Carbon Dioxide. To do they must flush out the Oxygen with a sufficient excess of CO2. If you double the space which needs cover age, you will likely need to more than double the amount of gas needed.  Two other things to keep in mind:
-  CO2 may be insufficient to immediately extinguish certain pyrophoric substances and/or chemical react ions that can occur in the absence of free oxygen.
-  CO2 is an asp hyxiant. Anyone too close when the fire suppression system is activated is in danger of asphyxiation, including unconsciousness and possibly death, when CO2 displaces all the O2 in that area.

The installer of the system is your best resource for information.

Thanks ,

Todd Perkins
Regional Safet Director
Airgas Mid America
< br>

On Jun 29, 2011 2:32 PM, Floyd, Karon <Karon.Floyd**At_Symbol_Here**DHS.GOV> wrote:

CO2 is covered in NFPA 12. What I am going to say is that based on the
information provided below, if a gas system was installed for the
current rooms use, the same could be extended to the second room as
well.

The real issue is that the system installed was calculated for a
specific area i.e. 400^2 and now you are adding to that space. In order
to cover the new area, an installer would need to recalculate both areas
combined and based on those calculations determine how much gas (CO2) is
needed. This should be done by a licensed installer that can certify the
system.

Bill E. Anderson, Fire Chief
Office of the PIADC Safety Officer
U.S. Dept. of Homeland Security
Plum Island Fire Department
P.O. Box 848
Greenport, NY 11944-0848
Telephone: 631-323-3215
Fax: 631-323-3053
BB: 631-767-0495

-----Original Message-----
From: DCHAS-L Discussion List [mailto:DCHAS-L**At_Symbol_Here**list.uvm.edu] On Behalf Of
Ferm Barret A
Sent: Tuesday, June 28, 2011 4:04 PM
To: DCHAS-L**At_Symbol_Here**LIST.UVM.EDU
Subject: [DCHAS-L] Post request from Barry Ferm

Dear DCHAS,

I would like to have input as to what are the requirements,
recommendations or criteria for fire suppression in a chemical
stockroom. Ours is ca. 400 ft^2, containing all the basics: gen org,
gen inorg, oxidizers, poisons, flammables, reactive metals, corrosives
(the latter 5 groups are in separate, ventilated cabinets). We
currently have a CO2 system, but we are creating a second store room,
and want to know if we need a non-water suppression system. Many
thanks! Barry Ferm, St. Ambrose University. FermBarretA**At_Symbol_Here**sau.edu

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