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Date: Sun, 7 Mar 2010 07:06:47 -0500
Reply-To: DCHAS-L Discussion List <DCHAS-L**At_Symbol_Here**LIST.UVM.EDU>
Sender: DCHAS-L Discussion List <DCHAS-L**At_Symbol_Here**LIST.UVM.EDU>
From: McGrath Edward J <Edward.McGrath**At_Symbol_Here**REDCLAY.K12.DE.US>
Subject: Re: GLOVES IN STUDENT LABS
I'm the supervisor of science for a K-12 school district in Delaware
with five high schools. Recognizing that my clientele represents a
different age group from undergraduate college, allow me to share our
policy regarding gloves and other safety equipment.
We drafted a safety policy that spells out exactly which personal
protective devices are used in which circumstances. This includes when
to use vinyl gloves, goggles, lab aprons, and fume hoods. It also
specifies exactly what chemicals may be used and what may not be used.
Ditto for micro-organisms (baker's yeast is all they are allowed to
use). When teachers order chemicals, I have to approve the order, and
the teacher has to specify the purpose of the chemical. They only get
the chemical if I approve the order.
So the answer to the question, do we provide gloves, is simple. We
provide the gloves, but we have to approve the procedure requiring the
gloves first. It may seem a little Draconian, but it takes the pressure
off the teachers and off the principals (most of the latter know little
to nothing about science lab safety).
Edward J. McGrath
Science Supervisor
Red Clay Consolidated School District
________________________________
From: DCHAS-L Discussion List on behalf of Andrew Gross
Sent: Fri 3/5/2010 11:45 PM
To: DCHAS-L**At_Symbol_Here**LIST.UVM.EDU
Subject: Re: [DCHAS-L] GLOVES IN STUDENT LABS
I'm really sorry if I come across a little harsh here, and oddly
generally the opposite stance I take; but WERE TALKING ABOUT
STUDENTS....KIDS!!! Let me ask you this, first its OK to handle 0.1N
HCL fine no real dermal hazard with a quick rinse, but now the bio
department adopts your successful policy. Now the kid gets something on
his hand that doesn't sting a bit...but what he really took home was a
little ecoli they were working with, which, although harmless,
mutates...like ecoli likes to do and boom...you got yourself an
outbreat. OK, a little outlandish....but insert disaster at any
point...it could happen and chances are something bad will happen, what
is more likely is little suzy's parents suing you for the little red
mark left by the acid and you can use your newly saved money to settle
with them. You can warn them about the hazards of working no
glove...but this is America and they will win.
-Andrew
On Fri, Mar 5, 2010 at 8:57 PM, David C. Finster
wrote:
We make gloves available, but I personally encourage students to wear
them only in situations where they are warranted. In my judgment, in
many labs the chemicals in use provide no significant skin hazard,
especially when a quick rinse with readily-available tap water is
possible even in instances where perhaps some dermal hazard might exist
(for extended exposure.) The skin is a pretty good barrier, but there
are surely chemicals that can destroy and/or penetrate skin. For some
dermal hazards, the gloves that might "be routinely available" in lab
may not provide protection, either, so unlike splash goggles that
provide virtually all-encompassing eye protection, "gloves" might not
protect the skin depending upon the chemical and the glove. Wearing
the wrong glove may be worse than wearing no glove. And, this email
thread is about "student labs" where many of the most dangerous dermal
hazards would be avoided in the first place. (HF in general chemistry?
I think not!)
Also, unlike goggles, gloves are disposable, which incurs the cost that
prompted this email thread. I don't "discourage" glove use, but (I
think that) some students use them more routinely than others, and
perhaps more than necessary (perhaps related to bouts of chemophobia
that may not be warranted). Some students realize that gloves become
uncomfortable to wear after awhile. Safety overrides comfort (as with
some goggles, for some students), to be sure, but when there is no need
for gloves why endure discomfort? Gloves may or may not hinder
manipulations; in principle they shouldn't, but inexperienced users
don't make what others might consider "good judgment" in many
situations.
Finally, I recall reading (about 40 years ago) some human behavior
study that indicated that some drivers drove faster when wearing seat
belts (when these were new devices in cars) since they "felt safer"
wearing the seat belt and therefore "felt safer to drive faster." (This
was hardly the intended effect of wearing seat belts, and I'd guess not
a universal response for all personality types.) But, I wonder, if some
students won't feel somewhat less need to be careful about spilling
solutions or solvents when they are wearing protective gloves? Just
speculation; no data, not even pseudo-data like an anecdote!
It could be argued that it is prudent to wear gloves all of the time
(just as we mandate splash goggles all of the time) but for me, the
arguments above about cost, comfort, lack of need in many lab
situations, and the possibility of using the wrong glove material all
argue for a more tempered, occasional use of gloves. Of course, one
idiosyncratic allergic reaction by one student out of a thousand can
lead to universal CYA-motivated use that, in my judgment, could end up
doing more damage than good over the long haul for the other 999+ that
follow. Alas.
Dave
P.S. Here is a list of resources that may be helpful regarding glove
selection:
http://www.allsafetyproducts.biz/site/323655/page/74172
This chart is sorted by categories of chemicals. Gloves types are
indicated; no thickness information.
http://safety.nmsu.edu/programs/chem_safety/hazcom_PPE-resistance_guide.h
tm
This chart has an alphabetical list of chemicals. Gloves types are
indicated; no thickness information.
http://safety.nmsu.edu/programs/chem_safety/hazcom_PPE_glove_guide.htm
General categories and characteristics of glove materials.
http://www.bestglove.com/site/chemrest/default.aspx
Allows users to search by either specific chemical or specific gloves.
Extensive information provided.
http://www.des.umd.edu/ls/gloves.html
Alphabetical listing of chemicals. Several glove materials listed, with
thickness indicated.
http://www.saftgard.com/anonymous/SolvaGard1.pdf
Information on nitrile gloves for many chemicals.
http://www.mapaglove.com/ChemicalSearch.cfm?id=1
Searchable database.
http://www.northsafety.com/ClientFormsImages/NorthSafety/CorpSite/E8D15F2
E-1F59-454F-B8F0-147FA2B9D81D.pdf
PDF file with many gloves and chemical listed.
http://www.ansellpro.com/download/Ansell_8thEditionChemicalResistanceGuid
e.pdf
http://www.ansellpro.com/specware/
This chart has an alphabetical list of chemicals. Gloves types are
indicated; relatively thick gloves tested.
David C. Finster
Professor of Chemistry
University Chemical Hygiene Officer
Department of Chemistry
Wittenberg University
dfinster**At_Symbol_Here**wittenberg.edu
From: DCHAS-L Discussion List [mailto:DCHAS-L**At_Symbol_Here**LIST.UVM.EDU] On Behalf
Of Debbie M. Decker
Sent: Friday, March 05, 2010 6:53 PM
To: DCHAS-L**At_Symbol_Here**LIST.UVM.EDU
=09
Subject: Re: [DCHAS-L] GLOVES IN STUDENT LABS
=09
We provide them in our undergraduate chemistry/biochemistry labs, amid
some gnashing of teeth over the cost! We do require students to
purchase their own safety goggles. I don't know what other
undergraduate lab classes provide - biology, geology, etc.
Debbie
-----------------------------
Debbie M. Decker, Campus Chemical Safety Officer
Environmental Health and Safety
University of California, Davis
1 Shields Ave.
Davis, CA 95616
(530)754-7964/(530)752-4527 (FAX)
dmdecker**At_Symbol_Here**ucdavis.edu
Co-Conspirator to Make the World A
Better Place -- Visit www.HeroicStories.com
and join the conspiracy
From: DCHAS-L Discussion List [mailto:DCHAS-L**At_Symbol_Here**LIST.UVM.EDU] On Behalf
Of Kennedy, Sheila
Sent: Friday, March 05, 2010 3:32 PM
To: DCHAS-L**At_Symbol_Here**LIST.UVM.EDU
Subject: [DCHAS-L] GLOVES IN STUDENT LABS
As the staff of the Chemistry & Biochemistry Teaching Labs, we have
been asked to propose ideas for saving money, as budgets are only
getting tighter over the next few years. One idea proposed is that we
stop providing gloves ad lib. to students, but have them buy & bring
their own. We currently supply either nitrile or PVC examination (thin,
single-use) gloves in our labs.
Do you provide/require gloves for student labs?
Sheila
--
Sheila M. Kennedy, CHO
Safety Coordinator
Chemistry & Biochemistry Teaching Laboratories
University of California, San Diego
(858) 534-0221
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