Check out Safety Emporium for your N95, N99, and face shield needs.
Date: Fri, 5 Mar 2010 23:45:05 -0500
Reply-To: DCHAS-L Discussion List <DCHAS-L**At_Symbol_Here**LIST.UVM.EDU>
Sender: DCHAS-L Discussion List <DCHAS-L**At_Symbol_Here**LIST.UVM.EDU>
From: Andrew Gross <gross.drew**At_Symbol_Here**GMAIL.COM>
Subject: Re: GLOVES IN STUDENT LABS
In-Reply-To: <B1331E0BABBF2F41ADBB549EF89EA74A032923AF79AF**At_Symbol_Here**WITTFSVS.wittenberg.edu>
I'm really sorry if I come across a little harsh here, and oddly generally
the opposite stance I take; but WERE TALKING ABOUT STUDENTS....KIDS!!! Let
me ask you this, first its OK to handle 0.1N HCL fine no real dermal hazard
with a quick rinse, but now the bio department adopts your successful
policy. Now the kid gets something on his hand that doesn't sting a
bit...but what he really took home was a little ecoli they were working
with, which, although harmless, mutates...like ecoli likes to do and
boom...you got yourself an outbreat. OK, a little outlandish....but insert
disaster at any point...it could happen and chances are something bad will
happen, what is more likely is little suzy's parents suing you for the
little red mark left by the acid and you can use your newly saved money to
settle with them. You can warn them about the hazards of working no
glove...but this is America and they will win.
-Andrew
On Fri, Mar 5, 2010 at 8:57 PM, David C. Finster w
rote:
> We make gloves available, but I personally encourage students to wear
> them only in situations where they are warranted. In my judgment, in man
y
> labs the chemicals in use provide no significant skin hazard, especially
> when a quick rinse with readily-available tap water is possible even in
> instances where perhaps some dermal hazard might exist (for extended
> exposure.) The skin is a pretty good barrier, but there are surely
> chemicals that can destroy and/or penetrate skin. For some dermal hazard
s,
> the gloves that might =93be routinely available=94 in lab may not provide
> protection, either, so unlike splash goggles that provide virtually
> all-encompassing eye protection, =93gloves=94 might not protect the skin
> depending upon the chemical and the glove. Wearing the wrong glove may
be
> worse than wearing no glove. And, this email thread is about =93student
> labs=94 where many of the most dangerous dermal hazards would be avoided
in
> the first place. (HF in general chemistry? I think not!)
>
>
>
> Also, unlike goggles, gloves are disposable, which incurs the cost that
> prompted this email thread. I don=92t =93discourage=94 glove use, but (I
think
> that) some students use them more routinely than others, and perhaps more
> than necessary (perhaps related to bouts of chemophobia that may not be
> warranted). Some students realize that gloves become uncomfortable to w
ear
> after awhile. Safety overrides comfort (as with some goggles, for some
> students), to be sure, but when there is no need for gloves why endure
> discomfort? Gloves may or may not hinder manipulations; in principle th
ey
> shouldn=92t, but inexperienced users don=92t make what others might consi
der
> =93good judgment=94 in many situations.
>
>
>
> Finally, I recall reading (about 40 years ago) some human behavior study
> that indicated that some drivers drove faster when wearing seat belts (wh
en
> these were new devices in cars) since they =93felt safer=94 wearing the s
eat
> belt and therefore =93felt safer to drive faster.=94 (This was hardly th
e
> intended effect of wearing seat belts, and I=92d guess not a universal
> response for all personality types.) But, I wonder, if some students won
=92t
> feel somewhat less need to be careful about spilling solutions or solvent
s
> when they are wearing protective gloves? Just speculation; no data, not
> even pseudo-data like an anecdote!
>
>
>
> It could be argued that it is prudent to wear gloves all of the time (jus
t
> as we mandate splash goggles all of the time) but for me, the arguments
> above about cost, comfort, lack of need in many lab situations, and the
> possibility of using the wrong glove material all argue for a more temper
ed,
> occasional use of gloves. Of course, one idiosyncratic allergic reactio
n
> by one student out of a thousand can lead to universal CYA-motivated use
> that, in my judgment, could end up doing more damage than good over the l
ong
> haul for the other 999+ that follow. Alas.
>
>
>
> Dave
>
>
>
> P.S. Here is a list of resources that may be helpful regarding glove
> selection:
>
>
>
> http://www.allsafetyproducts.biz/site/323655/page/74172
>
> This chart is sorted by categories of chemicals. Gloves types are
> indicated; no thickness information.
>
> http://safety.nmsu.edu/programs/chem_safety/hazcom_PPE-resistance_guide.h
tm
>
> This chart has an alphabetical list of chemicals. Gloves types are
> indicated; no thickness information.
>
> http://safety.nmsu.edu/programs/chem_safety/hazcom_PPE_glove_guide.htm
>
> General categories and characteristics of glove materials.
>
> http://www.bestglove.com/site/chemrest/default.aspx
>
> Allows users to search by either specific chemical or specific gloves.
> Extensive information provided.
>
> http://www.des.umd.edu/ls/gloves.html
>
> Alphabetical listing of chemicals. Several glove materials listed, with
> thickness indicated.
>
> http://www.saftgard.com/anonymous/SolvaGard1.pdf
>
> Information on nitrile gloves for many chemicals.
>
> http://www.mapaglove.com/ChemicalSearch.cfm?id=1
>
> Searchable database.
>
>
> http://www.northsafety.com/ClientFormsImages/NorthSafety/CorpSite/E8D15F2
E-1F59-454F-B8F0-147FA2B9D81D.pdf
>
> PDF file with many gloves and chemical listed.
>
>
> http://www.ansellpro.com/download/Ansell_8thEditionChemicalResistanceGuid
e.pdf
>
> http://www.ansellpro.com/specware/
>
> This chart has an alphabetical list of chemicals. Gloves types are
> indicated; relatively thick gloves tested.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> David C. Finster
> Professor of Chemistry
> University Chemical Hygiene Officer
> Department of Chemistry
> Wittenberg University
> dfinster**At_Symbol_Here**wittenberg.edu
>
>
>
> *From:* DCHAS-L Discussion List [mailto:DCHAS-L**At_Symbol_Here**LIST.UVM.EDU] *On Behalf
> Of *Debbie M. Decker
> *Sent:* Friday, March 05, 2010 6:53 PM
>
> *To:* DCHAS-L**At_Symbol_Here**LIST.UVM.EDU
> *Subject:* Re: [DCHAS-L] GLOVES IN STUDENT LABS
>
>
>
> We provide them in our undergraduate chemistry/biochemistry labs, amid so
me
> gnashing of teeth over the cost! We do require students to purchase thei
r
> own safety goggles. I don=92t know what other undergraduate lab classes
> provide - biology, geology, etc.
>
>
>
> Debbie
>
> -----------------------------
>
> Debbie M. Decker, Campus Chemical Safety Officer
> Environmental Health and Safety
> University of California, Davis
> 1 Shields Ave.
> Davis, CA 95616
> (530)754-7964/(530)752-4527 (FAX)
> dmdecker**At_Symbol_Here**ucdavis.edu
> Co-Conspirator to Make the World A
> Better Place -- Visit www.HeroicStories.comand join the conspiracy
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* DCHAS-L Discussion List [mailto:DCHAS-L**At_Symbol_Here**LIST.UVM.EDU] *On Behalf
> Of *Kennedy, Sheila
> *Sent:* Friday, March 05, 2010 3:32 PM
> *To:* DCHAS-L**At_Symbol_Here**LIST.UVM.EDU
> *Subject:* [DCHAS-L] GLOVES IN STUDENT LABS
>
>
>
> As the staff of the Chemistry & Biochemistry Teaching Labs, we have been
> asked to propose ideas for saving money, as budgets are only getting tigh
ter
> over the next few years. One idea proposed is that we stop providing glov
es
> ad lib. to students, but have them buy & bring their own. We currently
> supply either nitrile or PVC examination (thin, single-use) gloves in our
> labs.
>
> Do you provide/require gloves for student labs?
>
>
>
> *Sheila *
>
> --
> Sheila M. Kennedy, CHO
> Safety Coordinator
> Chemistry & Biochemistry Teaching Laboratories
> University of California, San Diego
> (858) 534-0221
>
>
>
I'm really sorry if I come across a little harsh here, and oddly genera
lly the opposite stance I take; but WERE TALKING ABOUT STUDENTS....KIDS!!!
=A0 Let me ask you this, first its OK to handle 0.1N HCL fine no real derma
l hazard with a quick rinse, but now the bio department adopts your success
ful policy.=A0 Now the kid gets something on his hand that doesn't stin
g a bit...but what he really took home was a little ecoli they were working
with, which, although harmless, mutates...like ecoli likes to do and boom.
..you got yourself an outbreat.=A0 OK, a little outlandish....but insert di
saster at any point...it could happen and chances are something bad will ha
ppen, what is more likely is little suzy's parents suing you for the li
ttle red mark left by the acid and you can use your newly saved money to se
ttle with them.=A0 You can warn them about the hazards of working no glove.
..but this is America and they will win.
-Andrew
On Fri, Mar 5, 2010 at 8:57 P
M, David C. Finster
<dfinster**At_Symbol_Here**wittenberg.edu> wrote:
We make glo
ves available, but I
personally encourage students to wear them only in situations where they ar
e
warranted.=A0 In my judgment, in many labs the chemicals in use provide no
significant
skin hazard, especially when a quick rinse with readily-available tap water
is possible
even in instances where perhaps some dermal hazard might exist (for extende
d
exposure.)=A0 The skin is a pretty good barrier, but there are surely
chemicals that can destroy and/or penetrate skin.=A0 For some dermal
hazards, the gloves that might =93be routinely available=94 in lab may
not provide protection, either, so unlike splash goggles that provide virtu
ally
all-encompassing eye protection, =93gloves=94 might not protect the
skin depending upon the chemical and the glove.=A0 =A0=A0Wearing the
wrong glove may be worse than wearing no glove.=A0 And, this email thread i
s
about =93student labs=94=A0 where many of the most dangerous dermal
hazards would be avoided in the first place.=A0 (HF in general
chemistry?=A0 I think not!)
=A0<
/p>
Also, unlik
e goggles, gloves are
disposable, which incurs the cost that prompted this email thread.=A0 I don
=92t
=93discourage=94 glove use, but (I think that) some students use them
more routinely than others, and perhaps more than necessary (perhaps relate
d to
bouts of chemophobia that may not be warranted).=A0 Some students realize
that gloves =A0become uncomfortable to wear after awhile.=A0 Safety overrid
es
comfort (as with some goggles, for some students), to be sure, but when the
re
is no need for gloves why endure discomfort? =A0=A0Gloves may or may not
hinder manipulations; in principle they shouldn=92t, but inexperienced
users don=92t make what others might consider =93good judgment=94
in many situations.=A0
=A0<
/p>
Finally, I
recall reading (about
40 years ago) some human behavior study that indicated that some drivers dr
ove
faster when wearing seat belts (when these were new devices in cars) since
they
=93felt safer=94 wearing the seat belt and therefore =93felt safer
to drive faster.=94=A0 (This was hardly the intended effect of wearing
seat belts, and I=92d guess not a universal response for all personality
types.)=A0 But, I wonder, if some students won=92t=A0 feel somewhat
less need to be careful about spilling solutions or solvents when they are
wearing protective gloves?=A0 Just speculation; no data, not even
pseudo-data like an anecdote!
=A0<
/p>
It could be
argued that it is
prudent to wear gloves all of the time (just as we mandate splash goggles a
ll
of the time) but for me, the arguments above about cost, comfort, lack of n
eed
in many lab situations, and the possibility of using the wrong glove materi
al
all argue for a more tempered, occasional use of gloves.=A0 =A0Of course,
one idiosyncratic allergic reaction by one student out of a thousand can le
ad
to universal CYA-motivated use that, in my judgment, could end up doing mor
e
damage than good over the long haul for the other 999+ that follow.=A0 Alas
.
=A0<
/p>
Dave
=A0<
/p>
P.S.=A0 Her
e is a list of
resources that may be helpful regarding glove selection:
=A0<
/p>
=A0<
/p>
=A0<
/p>
=A0<
/p>
=A0<
/p>
=A0
We provide
them in our
undergraduate chemistry/biochemistry labs, amid some gnashing of teeth over
the
cost!=A0 We do require students to purchase their own safety goggles.=A0
I don=92t know what other undergraduate lab classes provide - biology,
geology, etc.
=A0<
/p>
Debbie
-----------
------------------
Debbie M. Decker, Campus Chemical Safety Officer
Environmental Health and Safety
University of California, Davis
1 Shields Ave.
Davis, CA=A0 95616
(530)754-7964/(530)752-4527 (FAX)
dmdecker**At_Symbol_Here**ucdavis.
edu
Co-Conspirator to Make the World A
Better Place -- Visit www.HeroicStories.com
and join the conspiracy
=A0<
/p>
=A0<
/p>
=A0<
/p>
=A0
As the staff of the Chemistry
& Biochemistry
Teaching Labs, we have been asked to propose ideas for saving money, as bud
gets
are only getting tighter over the next few years. One idea proposed is that
we
stop providing gloves ad lib. to students, but have them buy & bring th
eir
own. We currently supply either nitrile or PVC examination (thin, single-us
e)
gloves in our labs.
Do you provide/require gloves
for student labs?
=A0
Sheila
--
Sheila M. Kennedy, CHO
Safety Coordinator
Chemistry & Biochemistry Teaching Laboratories
University of California, San Diego
(858) 534-0221
=A0
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