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Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2009 12:07:16 -0500
Reply-To: "Nail, John" <jnail**At_Symbol_Here**OKCU.EDU>
Sender: DCHAS-L Discussion List <DCHAS-L**At_Symbol_Here**LIST.UVM.EDU>
From: "Nail, John" <jnail**At_Symbol_Here**OKCU.EDU>
Subject: Extinguishers
In-Reply-To: <2AF1C47996B01E4AA1A8DE740C235363F0C47E42**At_Symbol_Here**EXCHANGE3.grove.ad.uconn.edu>
In regards to the local fire department removing extinguishers from the lab
s,
My understanding is that the OSHA Lab Standard can be summarized as 'follow
Prudent Practices in the Laboratory, (National Research Council (1995))' a
nd note that Prudent Practices lists fire extinguishers on 9 different page
s; Section 6.F.2.3.1 is titled "Fire Extinguishers".
It is reasonable to conclude from the above that, as per OSHA, it is mandat
ory to have fire extinguishers in the labs.
Section 5.C.11 (page 86) requires that all laboratory personnel should know
what to do in case of an emergency, including clothing fires. As shown by
airliner disasters, there is a significant difference between telling peopl
e what to do in case of an emergency and training them in emergency respons
e.
In regards to extinguisher training- a suggestion - every calendar quarter,
set some paper in a metal barrel on fire and have 'untrained' lab workers
take turns putting out the fire.
The fire department's removing the extinguishers is a bad decision.
Personally, I would not let students use flammable materials or Bunsen burn
ers in a lab that did not have extinguishers. If there were no extinguisher
s in the lab, I would either bring my own or find a job elsewhere.
John Nail
Professor of Chemistry
Oklahoma City University
-----Original Message-----
From: DCHAS-L Discussion List [mailto:DCHAS-L**At_Symbol_Here**LIST.UVM.EDU] On Behalf Of Wa
wzyniecki Jr, Stefan
Sent: Monday, August 10, 2009 1:50 PM
To: DCHAS-L**At_Symbol_Here**LIST.UVM.EDU
Subject: Re: [DCHAS-L] Final thoughts on UCLA fatal accident.
Prompted by the posting below, I'd like to get views on the existence and u
se of fire extinguishers in labs.
By providing extinguishers in labs, one assumes there may be need for a res
earcher to use it. However, how many universities can document that resear
chers are trained in their use?
We had a situation where a senior researcher extinguished a small fire in a
lab, but OSHA happened to investigate, and faulted the university for not
providing training.
Also, our fire department is in the process of REMOVING extinguishers from
labs under the explanation that evacuation and pulling the alarm is the pre
ferred procedure. Limited resources to perform routine extinguisher check
s in addition to training are reasons given as well.
Anyone else seeing this on their campus?
-S. Wawzyniecki, CIH, CHMM
EH & S
-----Original Message-----
From: DCHAS-L Discussion List [mailto:DCHAS-L**At_Symbol_Here**list.uvm.edu] On Behalf Of Li
st Moderator
Sent: Monday, August 10, 2009 2:32 PM
To: DCHAS-L**At_Symbol_Here**LIST.UVM.EDU
Subject: Re: [DCHAS-L] Final thoughts on UCLA fatal accident.
From: "Nail, John"
Date: August 10, 2009 2:02:11 PM EDT
Subject: RE: [DCHAS-L] Final thoughts on UCLA fatal accident.
The one aspect of the UCLA incident that I have not seen discussed in
these messages is that fact that the victim panicked; she ran away
from the safety shower instead of towards it.
Everyone who has worked extensively with pyrophores knows that it
isn't a matter if whether something bad will happen, it is a matter of
when it will happen and how the person responds; even the most highly-
trained, careful, etc, poisonous snake handler eventually gets bitten.
The following may sound silly, but it likely will be more useful than
more regulations and documents, and making researchers write 'I will
not set myself on fire' in their lab notebooks - there should be 'fire
drills' in which the PI, a post-doc or a senior grad student has each
person in the lab respond to various scenarios, such as a small fire
on a lab bench (grab the extinguisher), small fire in a hood
(extinguisher), large hood fire (evacuate), the lab worker is on fire
(safety shower), someone else in the lab is on fire (shower or
extinguisher or fire blanket), etc. The goal being that if someone is
on fire, he/she reflexively runs to the shower and dowses themselves.
$0.02 worth from someone who routinely handled the nastiest of the
pyrophores (and was on fire a couple of times).
John Nail
Professor of Chemistry
Oklahoma City University
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