After 35 years in high school and community college education, including 12
as an administrator, all I can say is amen to these comments.
Each department needs at least one champion who believes in safety.  Even
then it is an uphill battle.  That is one advantage that industry has over
academia.  They can mandate at least attendance at safety training and
required sign off on safety issues.  Once we required students to sign off
on safety rules and stuck by them ourselves, goggles on at all times in the
lab, etc.  It got better.  Not good but better.
But we have to just keep bring up the issue until the university profs are
all also good examples so that our teachers have been used to following
good safety practices from day one.
Jan Hayes

> [Original Message]
> From: Ed Miller 
> To: 
> Date: 8/4/2009 8:13:12 AM
> Subject: Re: [DCHAS-L] Article from Chemical and Engineering - very
complete information about UCLA fatality
>
> Hi Harry and All:
>   I agree with what Harry has said.  It don't believe that the problem
> centers on the lack of rigor in the standards.  The problem, it seems to
> what I have seen, is that they are not utilized as they should be. 
> Accountability is absent many times.
>
>   Before increasing the strength of the standards, we need to figure out
> how to enforce - encourage academics to use them.  I would hope that a
> community of educators could somehow be educated to know that they need
> to be policing themselves so that the proper approach is shown to the
> students. That hope being stated, I think everyone needs a system to
> keep them honest and their practices relevant.  I think this will take a
> combination of education of adminsitrators/faculty/staff on their "duty
> of Care", as well as sticks and carrots.
> Ed Miller
>
> On Tue, August 4, 2009 7:46 am, Harry Elston wrote:
> > Neal et al.:
> >
> >
> >
> > I'm going to fall on the other side of the fence on this one - I don't
> > want
> > to see the lab standard any stronger than what it is.
> >
> >
> >
> > Personally, I think that Cal-OSHA missed the boat on this one and the
lab
> > standard is fine as it's written.  There is far enough teeth in the
> > statement regarding CHPs "...capable of protecting employees from the
> > health
> > hazards associated with hazardous chemicals in that laboratory..."
> > (1450(e)(1)(i))
> >
> >
> >
> > Making the Lab Standard prescriptive would be counter-productive for
> > safety
> > in the laboratory.  Keeping the standard performance based places the
> > burden
> > of safety squarely where it should be:  Front-line management, or in
this
> > case, the PI.  A prescriptive plan places the safety burden on "The
Safety
> > Guy/Gal" who has to go around and look to insure that every jot and
tittle
> > of the standard has been met.
> >
> >
> >
> > H
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > From: DCHAS-L Discussion List [mailto:DCHAS-L**At_Symbol_Here**list.uvm.edu] On Behalf Of
> > NEAL LANGERMAN
> > Sent: Monday, August 03, 2009 8:14 PM
> > To: DCHAS-L**At_Symbol_Here**LIST.UVM.EDU
> > Subject: Re: [DCHAS-L] Article from Chemical and Engineering - very
> > complete
> > information about UCLA fatality
> >
> >
> >
> > Peter and others -
> >
> > Unfortunately, UCLA and the lab had a CHP which satisfied Cal-OSHA.  The
> > reason that there is little mention in the UCLA discussion of the Lab
> > Standard and related is that UCLA is a good example of the standards
> > weaknesses.
> >
> >
> >
> > Any yes, it would be great to strengthen 1910.1450 and there are
> > discussions
> > along those lines, but that takes changing an existing OSHA standard. 
Not
> > easy.
> >
> >
> >
> > There are many ideas being discussed and this list is a good forum for
the
> > discussion.
> >
> >
> >
> > So, how would YOU suggest (1) improving the lab standard and (2) getting
> > OSHA to do it?
> >
> >
> >
> > -------------------------------------------
> > ---------------------------------------
> >
> > The information contained in this message is privileged and confidential
> > and
> > protected from disclosure. If the reader of this message is not the
> > intended
> > recipient, or an employee or agent responsible for delivering this
message
> > to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any
dissemination,
> > distribution or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. If
> > you
> > have received this communication in error, please notify us immediately
by
> > replying to the message and deleting it from your computer.
> >
> > NEAL LANGERMAN
> > ADVANCED CHEMICAL SAFETY, Inc.
> > 7563 CONVOY Ct
> > SAN DIEGO CA 92111
> > (858) 874 5577 (phone, 24/7)
> > (858) 874 8239 (FAX)
> > www.chemical-safety.com 
> >
> >
> >
> > From: DCHAS-L Discussion List [mailto:DCHAS-L**At_Symbol_Here**list.uvm.edu] On Behalf Of
> > Reinhardt, Peter
> > Sent: Monday, August 03, 2009 3:10 PM
> > To: DCHAS-L**At_Symbol_Here**LIST.UVM.EDU
> > Subject: Re: [DCHAS-L] Article from Chemical and Engineering - very
> > complete
> > information about UCLA fatality
> >
> >
> >
> > Kudos to C&E News for this excellent review and analysis.
> >
> >
> >
> > I continue to be surprised that there is so little mention of OSHA's lab
> > standard or Chemical Hygiene Plans, and no mention in this article. UCLA
> > is
> > required by California law to have a Chemical Hygiene Plan, and their
> > internal report (and CalOSHA citation) mentions it. Experts in the
article
> > discuss the need for lab-specific risks assessment, policies, procedures
> > and
> > training. The Chemical Hygiene Plan is the tool for all these things. In
> > response to this tragedy I think it would be good if ACS DivCHAS worked
to
> > strengthen the use and implementation of laboratory Chemical Hygiene
> > Plans.
> >
> >
> >
> > Pete
> >
> >
> >
> > Peter A. Reinhardt
> >
> > Director, Office of Environmental Health & Safety
> >
> > Yale University
> >
> > 135 College St., Suite 100
> >
> > New Haven, CT   06510-2411
> >
> > (203) 737-2123
> >
> > peter.reinhardt**At_Symbol_Here**yale.edu
> >
> >
> >
> >   _____
> >
> > From: DCHAS-L Discussion List [mailto:DCHAS-L**At_Symbol_Here**LIST.UVM.EDU] On Behalf Of
> > Debbie M. Decker
> > Sent: Monday, August 03, 2009 1:38 PM
> > To: DCHAS-L**At_Symbol_Here**LIST.UVM.EDU
> > Subject: [DCHAS-L] Article from Chemical and Engineering - very complete
> > information about UCLA fatality
> >
> >
> >
> > http://pubs.acs..org/cen/science/87/8731sci1.html
> > 
> >
> >
> >
> > Debbie
> >
> >
>
>
> Edward J. Miller, Ph.D.
> Chairperson and Professor of Chemistry
> SUNY Plattsburgh

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