We have been working with these types of materials (tri-nitrated aromatics) since 1976. 1. Remote opening is the best procedure. 2. Picric acid is not all that soluble so simply dunking the container in water is not a particularly effective way to clean the threads. 3. In some states (such as Virginia), changing a DOT hazard class is considered hazardous waste treatment. Dry picric acid is a DOT class 1 (explosive) while wet picric acid is a DOT class 4 (flammable solid). Virginia charges $2,390.00 for the permit to conduct the treatment. If a public safety official declares an emergency, the permit fee is waived (plus you get to wave at all the TV reporters who show up for the emergencies) 4. Because of (3), sometimes a small, well shielded detonation is cheaper that messing around with waste treatment, manifesting, etc. No residues, no noise, less cost. 5. I think this is in the Picatinny (spelling?) Arsenal Encyclopedia of Explosives -- if TNT will detonate under an initiating force of 1, picric acid will detonate under an initiating force of about 0.92. If TNT produces a force of 1 upon detonation, picric acid produces a force of about 1.06 George Walton 757-436-1033 -----Original Message----- From: DCHAS-L Discussion List [mailto:DCHAS-L**At_Symbol_Here**list.uvm.edu] On Behalf Of List Moderator Sent: Tuesday, March 31, 2009 1:26 PM To: DCHAS-L**At_Symbol_Here**LIST.UVM.EDU Subject: [DCHAS-L] 4 Re: [DCHAS-L] Picric acid From: Ken SimoloDate: March 31, 2009 11:43:54 AM EDT (CA) Subject: Re: [DCHAS-L] Picric acid When I was an undergraduate, a bottle of picric acid blew up in the middle of the night in the stockroom. The top of the bottle blew up (I assume crystals drying out at the lid) and the bottle next to it broke. The bottle was not jarred, etc. but it also had not been used for a few years. So I am not sure the risk is as minimal as some have stated. Having said that, I have immersed picric acid bottles behind a blast shield before opening them. Ken == From: "Ellison, Mark" Date: March 31, 2009 10:57:43 AM EDT (CA) Subject: RE: [DCHAS-L] Picric acid >Lyle Phifer, Russ' father, taught me a technique for opening containers of peroxide formers. I'm sorry, but I must vigorously disagree with this technique. Our first efforts must always be toward safety and this method misses, in my opinion. No disrespect intended to Mr. Phifer. All of my dealings with picric acid happened in abandoned labs with little or no on site resources. Even then, we had a plan and made sure we limited ANY exposure by using safe work practices. Mark Ellison "Plan Safety - Work Safely" P Please consider the environment before printing this email === From: David Roberts Date: March 31, 2009 10:59:42 AM EDT (CA) Subject: Re: [DCHAS-L] Picric acid OK, get a vice, some superglue, a long string, and some boards. Take your dangerously explosive thing, drive it out to the country (avoid potholes) where there is nothing that will get blown up should something go wrong (that's the rub - while I do have a vice and think this might work - I don't want to blow up anything right next to my organic stockroom or anywhere in our building to be quite honest). Put the vice in the middle of a big cornfield (or something like that). Glue the boards to the container of interest so that you can then put the whole thing in a vice with no turning possible. Glue the string to the cap - and follow the instructions below. Should work just fine. Sorry - couldn't resist. Didn't mean to sound crass, but it's Tuesday and I'm a bit on edge today. No worries. I personally hate pressure (and the sudden release of). As a result, I avoid anything that may explode at all costs. I agree with all the picric acid things thus far - we had some that was bone dry for many years - called the bomb squad (I'm on the fire dept as well). Bomb experts showed up who knew how to handle these things (so they claimed - didn't show me their union papers though). They handled it properly getting it out of the building. Threw it in the trunk of their car - drove it to the police post, and shot some rounds at it to blow it up (I think they may have surrounded it with some sort of explosive that they had on hand. Surprised they made the 10 mile drive on our county road system. In hindsight, I would have put it under water and gently loosened the cap over a several day/week period. I would have felt better - and it would have been much safer. Metal picrates are the worry (biggest worry - not only worry), and so as long as the cap is plastic, it should be OK to place under water over a long period, loosening the cap slowly over time. Just put a brick or something on it to keep it submerged initially. Good luck Dave == From: "Ben Ruekberg" Date: March 31, 2009 11:01:13 AM EDT (CA) Subject: RE: [DCHAS-L] Picric acid Just a thought. Since the invention of crazy glue, gorilla glue and similar products, opening a bottle from a distance might be simplified. Assuming the bottle can be moved without danger, why not glue it to an oversized piece of wood that can be held in the vise and glue a yard stick to the cap. Then attach the string to the yard stick, get far away and ever-so-gently slowly pull on the string. The yard stick will provide better leverage than wrapping the string around the cap and the wood will keep the vise from squeezing the bottle. Ben Ruekberg
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